Saturday, 4 May 2013

Picking over the Thanet election results

Obviously the county council elections are about the electorate sending some sort of message to national government. 

Since the last elections for county councillors at a national level out of about 2,000 county councillors the changes this time were.

Conservative –335
Labour +291
Liberal Democrat –124
Independent +24
United Kingdom Independence Party +139

I guess last time we had county council elections we had a Labour government and up to a point some people seem to vote against the main party 

Out of 8 councillors in Thanet the changes were.

Conservative –7
Labour 0
United Kingdom Independence Party +7

Doing a bit of on the back of a fag packet math, which is probably wrong, my first guess is that had the national trend been reflected in Thanet:

Labour would have gained 0 or 1 or 2

UKIP would have gained 0 or 1 or 2

Conservatives would have lost 1 or 2 or 3

So the question that rises in back my mind like. What is the square root of minus one? Is why the difference in Thanet.

I am putting this up as I try to figure it out, maybe my maths is all wrong, voting swings is not my subject, so perhaps someone who understands it better will correct me in the comments.

One possibility is that KCC appears more focussed on west and central Kent and people here in Thanet felt less bothered about their county council than those in other parts of the country.

The electorate at large and possibly the Thanet electorate, seem to be saying they don’t like career politicians and yet bucking the trend they voted in Will Scobie who seems to be a career politician in the making.  

Talking to local people, not having the promised referendum on Europe doesn’t seem to have gone down well, this opinion seems to be held by both those for and against Europe. As far as I can see it would have been, or would be a close vote, perhaps people are just curious as to the result, either way it seems a bit of a gamble.  

There is the bickering between local councillors at TDC and this combined with a lot of voters not being able to differentiate between types of local councillors may have taken its toll.

People who I have spoken to recently who have watched or heard about the filming of the scrutiny meeting where there was a strong inference that councillors just didn’t care, were not impressed, but then again this didn’t make many vote Driver.  

I guess the Ezekiel trial and verdict has had some effect, the Conservatives losing (or for one reader loosing) all of their councillors instead of the two or three I think I expected, may be reflected in this, but no Labour gains suggests this may have rubbed off on all existing councillors. Perhaps a message of out with the old and in with the new.   

I guess like many people I have a sort of vague notion of what KCC actually does, mends the roads, runs schools and hospitals, youth centres, police, fire stations I think. Will shortly be closing your youth centre, police station and so on.

Gets the bulk of your council tax and business rates to spend, spends a million a year on The Turner Contemporary.

I also guess that very few people have a concept that voting one way or another would have any effect whatsoever on anything KCC do and perhaps it is here that the problem lies.

I mean here, does voting Labour, Conservatives, ukip or monster raving loony in Thanet make any difference to what KCC do in Thanet? Or perhaps even more important is this perceived to be the case?    


  1. Michael, I think we have to accept that Thanet has certain unique factors. Firstly parts of the isle are more effected by immigration than most of the rest of the county. Secondly, the Conservatives have not fared too well in recent times, with some damning publicity of the wrong type, whilst the Hart regime has been largely lack lustre as well as no more open in their governance than what went before. Thus both main parties were seen in a poor light.

    Add the apathy, with the vast majority staying at home, and it was set up for UKIP to do well here. Will Scobie did well, in the circumstances, though even he, with a strong younger following, came second in his division to the UKIP candidate.

    Perhaps the count revealed it all where a bouyant Labour group at the start, fully expecting to wipe the floor with the Tories, went silent and then into deep gloom as the results came through. Ramsgate must have been a real shocker and one can but hope that the two major parties take on board that they need to start listening.

    1. You may have it William, locals seem to have a much worse perception of “the council” than anywhere else I have worked and traded, most seem to have had some brush with local government that has left them. What? Angry, bewildered, something like that.

      I think a lot of people had a perception of the Conservatives reducing the number of bureaucrats and not them reducing front line workers, I don’t think Cameron and co have mastered this one.

      The immigration issue isn’t something I am overly aware of in local conversations and adverse effects seem to be both related at least as much to the British immigrating from other parts of the country and very localised.

    2. Trying talking to the locals down Northdown Road and between the 'f' words you are left with no misconceptions about their view on immigration. Then the Margate side is far more effected than Ramsgate.

    3. William I have done and was surprised by the strength of feeling, even in the charity shops, but this isn’t something I have found in other parts of Thanet. In fact I even mentioned this to one of the councillors (who has just lost his seat) as being something that needed looking into, I think he thought I was being racist rather, or accusing the shopkeepers of racism, rather than me highlighting a problem.

    4. That is always the problem, Michael, highlight immigration and you are instantly racist in the same way as you are a homophobe if you oppose Equal marriage. It stifles debate in this country and leaves problems unresolved.

      The joke is, certainly as far as Cliftonville and Margate East are concerned, that the vast majority of immigrants are Europeans and, thus, the same race as us indigenous Brits. Nobody ever considers the size of our little nation, its services like hospitals and schools, the effect on local traditions and cultures or the feelings of the native population who no one ever thought of asking the question "Do you want to be multicultural."

    5. Difficult for me to consider being anything else William, living as I do in a country where the indigenous population is comprised of the results of continual immigration from Europe, for the past few thousand years. I think if you are looking for the native Briton, in say the native American or aboriginal sense i.e. the people whose ancestors here were the stone age hunter gatherers here, you would need to look in Scotland or Wales.

      Strange really, up until about 100 years ago the main priority for this and most other countries has been increasing the size of the population for survival of the race, at sometime not that long ago this has reversed.

    6. I thought we were sharing a sensible exchange, Michael, but you seem to be deliberately twisting my words. Yes, the ancients Brits were driven west by raiders from northern Europe, Danes, Vikings, Angles, Saxons and Jutes to name but some, but they were all European tribes that went to make up what we later called the English. Collectively, over those thousand plus years, they developed a common culture albeit with regional variations. What we have seen in the last fifty years or so, is a massive influx of people from much further afield who are not European, have very different cultures and arrived in large numbers too quickly to be properly assimilated.

      Too late now to change that, but, looking at our size and resources, it is certainly time to start questioning whether this can be sustained or should we, like most other countries, seek to attract just those skills we are short of. Try getting into Canada or New Zealand without having some qualificatioin on their current needs list, yet they have far more space than us.

    7. So, white faces preferred is what you're saying William? UK immigrants do have work permits etc as in Canada etc. Small countries such as Holland or Austria manage their borders without the benefit of the Channel why should the UK do so badly?

    8. William Epps & Michael,

      It really depends how far back you want to go. Prehistoric migration was from east to west. For example the traditional European blue eyes and blonde hair originated from what is now Northern India. There are several books based on DNA research that explain how these migrations gave rise to us in UK. One book that I would recommend is. 'The Origins Of The British' by Stephen Oppenheimer. He also includes chapters on the origin of our language, which again comes from Sanskrit and northern India. The book is very scientific and the mathematics lost me at times. Never the less it is an eye opener.

      I accept and support immigration control. Immigration control is not racist.

    9. No, 9:56, white faces is what you are saying. I said skills we need or are you suggesting that only white folk have skills. If you are I suggest you just take a look in any of our hospitals.

      Sadly, all you demonstrate is that it is impossible to have this much needed debate without somebody raises the spectre of racism. Grow up, man, it is about numbers a nation can properly support.

    10. William

      I seem to remember not long ago on here being told to "grow up man"? This could have been you then? I think you would find you would gain more respect here if you took a blogger identity at least?

    11. SG, since William Epps is my real name I do not think a blogger identity or psuedonym is necessary. I have also seen the comment 'grow up' used many times around the blogs and, whilst some people desperately need to, the use of it is not exclusive to any one person. If I have something to say I will use my own name if that is OK with you.

    12. William

      You clearly have issues and experiences you wish to share with us and I for one would like to hear them. Blogger cuts down the likelihood of being impersonated and misrepresented and being mistaken for someone else. Also, I have found that doing the odd post strengthens your presence in the community.

    13. William,

      I too use my real name. Never the less Solo is right. It is always wise to get a blogger ID to avoid impersonation. A while back we had a scatological buffoon on here who was posting in my name; but a click of the mouse revealed that he was a fraud.

    14. John & SG, I have followed the blogs for a long time though have tended to resist commenting for personal reasons. For that reason I have never considered opening an account though I can see the sense of what you are saying. Nonetheless, even accounts are open to abuse as we see at the moment with Lyndon Palmer who is really Richard Card, alias Rick, alias Retired, sometime anonymous and oft referred to as Retarded. Were it not for the repetitive nature of his conspiracy theories, one could be fooled into thinking several people support his views. All of which poses the question, is there really anyway to identity bloggers.

    15. William

      I don't think this is about identifying individual bloggers, but the issues behind the bloggers that are being identified. That, I think, is what holds our interest. But, to be able to keep up you need some sort of label. In my own case, the label I have chosen has instantly given me a small global audience.

      I quite like old Lyndon, and the reactions to him I find amusing.

    16. William, sorry about the delay replying, I guess one of my capacities within the comments on this blog is to pick at and counter what people say to see where it comes unstitched and what the opposing arguments are.

      I would recommend you get yourself a blogger or Google id and use that when commentating, apart from the obvious problem of people impersonating you I turn off anonymous comments here some of the time, which means you can’t comment when they are turned off.

      I don’t really have any options on this front as a heavy spam attack can be hundreds of comments in a day.

      With my science hat on I can see that world population, life expectancy, climate change and pollution issues are likely to stretch the resources of some countries to the point that the supportable population level is reached fairly soon.

      Up until now most of the ethical, political and religious imperatives have been heavily weighed towards causing population growth, changes have happened already and I guess more will be on the way.

    17. Sorry, SG, but when someone starts accusing named councillors of perjury, others of claiming military records unlawfully and yet another of indirect responsibility for the Deal bombing, that is certainly not amusing. This is a spiteful old man with some hate complex towards named individuals yet, since he has reported his claims to the chief constable to no avail, he still cannot get the message that they are without substance.

      Also, for the record, I am not about identifying bloggers and merely raised the issue to demonstrate that having a blogging account is no guarantee that your name will not be taken in vain.

    18. I think it is the Establishment that has made us all feel unsafe. We Bloggers do our best to try to address that and may not always succeed, Lyndon is a part of this.

      I am sure if all you wanted to do William was look at pictures of Thanet on the internet, you would have confined your online browsing to a specialist site.

    19. William you dissemble on white faces you refer in the thread to "a massive influx of people beyond Europe not assimilated". Presumably they're black? The UKIP debate is all about racism and foreigners and taking our jobs - much as the BNP state.

      But it's just not true. 5% immigration and far less in Kent. And in Kent there are thousands of empty houses so a limited population/small island hardly seems an issue. On the latter point people always say there isn't enough room/food/schools in Britain but can never say what the ideal is. I think it's poppycock again. What do you think the ideal is?

      Farage refers to "our people" meaning white.

      And as you say if there are skilled Indian doctors what's wrong with that? You're on the slippery slope to race crime and wog bashing.

      Nothing wrong with an immigration policy based on skills rather than race but that's not what UKIP are about.

      As always when there's a racist surge British people are repulsed by it. UKIP will try a few racist policies and be laughed at and ignored, and the Tories will hold their nose for the votes.

    20. anon 6:45,

      I find it difficult to follow your rant. Suffice to say that nationality has nothing to do with race. To refer to someone, for example, as Indian does not make reference to race. India is a diverse nation of different creeds, languages and colour, ranging from white to black. You are clearly from the far left nursing the shibboleth that anyone who speaks of immigration control must be a racist. It's all nonsense of course and I leave you to your dead in the water politics.

    21. It's the left that stifle debate with all their PC nonsense (another example is when they label everyone who doesn't agree with gay marriage as "homophobic"). That said, I welcome immigration from any nations as long as it's controlled, & see far more positives than negatives in having so many different cultures here.

      Anyway, hope you 'orrible lot haven't been stuck indoors in front of your computers on such a lovely day?! : )

    22. Peter,

      I spent 9 years of a 40 year career enforcing UK Immigration Law overseas in various countries. I refused visas to all Nationalities, colours and creeds when they failed to satisfy the Immigration Rules. That was about 5% of all applications that came before me. The rest I issued. I was scrupulously fair in my decisions, for my own self respect as much as anything else. In all this time no applicant ever called me a racist. I get angry when no nothing guardianistas and other lefties insinuate that I'm a racist.

      I've been out for most of the day.

    23. 6:45 I merely stated what has happened in the last fifty years and it is something which will increase as world population grows and food shortages increase. It needs a UN input and a programme of targetted aid to enable people to live where most prefer, in their homelands.

      All you want to speak about is race and colour and you talk of an Indian as though there were such a single racial group. The Brahmins are totally different to the Dravidians yet they both come from the Indian sub continent. I would also recommend you don't call the Matabelle, Shona.

      Unlike you I do not consider the colour of immigrants, just the ability to absorb them and offer them a decent life. I also, unlike you, have the courage to enter this debate using my real name.

    24. William,

      As you point out Africa is not about Countries, but all about tribe. The Matebele are a branch of the Zulu and believe that the Shona exist only to serve the Matebele. Zimbabwe was run by the Matebele until Mugabe took control. He is Shona and promptly set about massacring the Matebele. If one wants to find racism red in tooth and claw then go to Africa.

      It is the same when the chattering classes in UK used to talk about giving South Africa back to Africans. Well the whites were Africans too. No what they meant was give South Africa back to the black man. Well which black man. The original inhabitants were the Bush Men who were persecuted by all the other tribes. But thank God they had Nelson Mandela who single headedly prevented a tribal blood bath.

      I do wish that some of those in UK that go chattering on about racism would visit some of these countries meet the people and learn.

    25. I think you will find that Zimbabwe (or Rhodesia previously) was under Matabelle domination, with other tribes victims of tha annual blooding of spears, until the 1896 uprising. Again the original main inhabitants, the Matabelle having come up from the south, the Bush Men, were driven westward into the Kalahari, then of Bechuanaland but now Botswana. Many of the other inhabitans came from north of the Zambasi attracted by the work being offered by the new white settlers.

      Come so called independence in 1980 and the Matabelle were the biggest threat to Mugabe's rule. Hence he set about wiping them out using his North Korean trained and led 5th Brigade to do the act of genocide. In a decent world either Britain would have intervened, carrying out assurances given at the Lancaster House talks as the former colonial power, or the UN should have sent a force. In a wet Liberal world, we all stood back and pretended this lovely new black leader was doing no such thing whilst pouring in aid. If Smith had done half of what Mugabe has got away with, the Peter Hains of this world would have been screaming from the rooftops.

      If you want a good read, John, get a copy of Mukiwa by Peter Goodwin.

    26. William,

      You are right. These bleedin' heart liberal wets sit in their cosy arm chairs, reading the Guardian, shouting out and probably could not find these countries on a map.

      In the late 80's I was working in Bombay. Brits would visit and proceed to hold forth about the terrible things that the British did during our 300 years in India. I never contradicted them. I left that to my Indian friends who tore apart their facile arguments. These visitors would also go on about the poverty asking me, accusingly, how I could bare it and so on. I use to suggest to them that when they got back to UK they should sell their car and send the money to Mother Theresa. This usually shut them up. In common with most in India, I used to give cash to a few selected beggars. One in particular had pitch outside the railway station, he had no arms or legs and consequently I concluded that he was not faking it, as many were.

      In my experience of 21 years of living and working in various countries around the world is that the UK is the least racist of all. One of the worst for colour based racism was the communist countries.

    27. Some years ago in Penang, I was close to talking my way out of a speeding ticket until one of my passengers, a rather posh Chinese lady, called the Malay policeman a black monkey. Worse still, she never even offered to pay my fine.

    28. William,

      I lived on Penang from Jan '66 to July '68 in Ayer Itam and later Green Lane.

    29. Small world, John, I was there from July 63 to January 66, based at RAAF Butterworth but living most of that time in Tungan Bungha Park, if my spelling is still correct. I was a regular at the Penang Swimming Club and played cricket at the Penang Sports Club. Happy days.

    30. Did either of you own a pith helmet or a safari suit?

    31. Come on Grampsx2, back from your trip down memory lane to UKIP today in Thanet. You say there's racism in Africa? Golly gosh well I never. And other places too? Crikey. Your RAF/civil service years were obviously well-spent for such incisiveness.

      Next you'll be saying Manston's lax and illegal flight policies pose no immigration threat?

      But back to the subject. UKIP's policies are race based yes? And you didn't advise on how/when Britain is "full"?

    32. Anon @ 14:26 & 3:01,

      Manston Aquifer Man, you are back. I thought I would succeed in drawing you out of the woodwork. Couldn't resist it could you. You are so predictable. Don't you realise that by being here you are depriving some village of its idiot. I would love to stop and chat but I'm busy now can I come back and ignore you later.

    33. William,

      I was at Western Hill.

      The two inane anonymous comments above belong to same lonely old man. He gets angry and reacts with trite comments each time he suspects that someone has led a life outside of the mean and spiteful world that he inhabits alone. He would like to go down memory lane himself but he lacks the equipment. So he takes it out on everyone else. I have told him before that in many ways I pity him.

      The next comment to appear will be one saying that he is not the Manston Aquifer Man.

    34. Do not know about John, 3:01, but I had a jungle green outfit, a bush hat and a rifle and spent my non leisure time in the jungle trying to protect the new state of Malaysia from Sukarno's Indonesian aggressive aspirations. Have you ever done anything useful in your life?

    35. Anon @ 2:56 pm

      No, you buffoon. Did you ever own a brain?

    36. William,

      You are wasting your breath. The Manston Aquifer Man does not have the faintest idea where Malaysia is.

      I was RAF and they did not trust us with rifles.

    37. John, was that at the radar installation? Being Regiment we used to go up there the hard way from the top end of the island through the forest for training purposes. Mind you, the hotel on Penang Hill via the railway was a better option with a few cold beers as a reward for getting there.

      That should really wind up old aquifer having led a miserable do nothing existence with nothing to remember in his dotage other than how to whinge. Fancy never having been called boss, bwana, tuan or sahib in your whole life.

    38. Why do certain people insist on having two-way conversations on here that have absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter. Do as Mike Pearce suggested and meet up for a pint or a cuppa instead and leave the rest of us in peace!

    39. Allan MallinsonMay 06, 2013 4:28 pm

      What is your problem, Anonymous @ 4:11. Why shouldn't people talk to each other for, generally, such conversations are much more interesting than your snide remarks which contribute nothing to the thread or anything else. You are just a spoiler who seems to resent other people enjoying themselves.

      For the record, who is Mike Pearce?

    40. Anonymouse 4:11pm

      And why don't you keep you big nose out.

    41. Allan,

      I wonder if Mike Pearce is one of the anonymice?

    42. William,

      Yes, I worked on the radar installation. At that time the RAF was experimenting with air portable radar stations. Western Hill was chosen as a site in part because there were no roads leading to the summit. The entire unit was brought in by helicopter and assembled on site. The two lorries were each cut in half and brought up on the Hill Railway, and were welded back together at the top.

      This next bit is really going to get up the nose of the Manston Aquifer Man. Our first amah in Penang was a Tamil. When she heard me coming downstairs in the morning she would stand at the bottom and greet me with a slight bow and a, "Good morning Master". I have since tried to get my wife to do the same, but she refuses, funny people, wives.

      And for those that believe the locals hate the British presence: when Harold Wilson announced the British withdrawal form East of Suez the Malaysian and Singapore newspapers were up in arms. With headlines and reports along the lines of, "betrayal", "after 150 years the British desert us" and similar.

      We built up much good will abroad over the centuries and it is the likes of the Manston Aquifer Man that is tossing it away.

    43. Germane to my previous comment: I spotted the Manston Aquifer Man standing on the cliff top tossing breadcrumbs to helicopters.

    44. Michael: I don't think you realise just how much these old boy chit-chats are putting everyone else off from commentating (and it's obvious to everyone that "William" = "Tom").

    45. Anonymous 6:02,

      Can you please clarify. 1. What makes you believe that you are speaking for as you claim, "everyone else"?

      2. In what way do you assert that our chat is putting people off?
      Clearly it's not putting you off because you have squeaked up several times.

      The fact that my comments irritate you is not something that I need to take into account.

      Now instead of whinging go ahead and comment as you wish.

      So you reckon that William is Tom. You should not judge others by you own standards. Not everyone has an identity crisis like you. You are Mike Pearce.

    46. See you claim to be everyone yet again 6:02 and, no, I am not Tom who, according to John Worrow, was really Roger Latchford, leastways when he wasn't Simon Moores. I am precisely who I say I am and on the Thanet electoral roll. Who might you be or are you too ashamed to say.

    47. Was that really John Worrow?

    48. Holyer seems obsessed with Aquifer Man and naff insults like let me ignore you again, helicopter breadcrumbs and anonymouse etc etc until the life is sapped out of the reader. Epps seems to have replaced Clarke in the Foxtrot Oscar Brigade with Mallinson - less thuggish but stuck in the past.

      Perhaps they should be limited to one post a day: it is very dull and stifles interesting debates on UKIP or the aquifer. Perhaps "One comment per day Mr Holyer" should follow their posts and the debate continue on the previous comment?

      Or start their own blog.

      Mike Pearce was right, these really are dull silver surfer pensioners.

    49. Mike Pearce is you.

      You say that life is being sapped out of you by reading my posts - promises, promises.

      But I will say this for you. At least you're not obnoxious like so many other people - you're obnoxious in different and worse ways.

    50. I like Mike Pearce (I don't know him personally apart from meeting him once over a decade ago, but I enjoy his column).

    51. For the record let's get this straight. Mike Pearce writes in the Isle of Thanet Gazette and a few weeks back did a feature on how people insult each other on the Thanet blogs often finishing with a foxtrot oscar. He suggested they might be better off meeting up for a chat over a coffee or beer to air their differences. He did not anywhere condemn people for engaging in exchanges of experiences.

      It is also evident that the blogs are frequented by what he referred to as silver surfers, probably because we older folk have the time and the interest in the local political scene. If you want to socially engage with a working set try Linked-In or with the young then on Facebook.

      As for stifling debate on interesting things like the aquifer (Anon 8:47) I fell of my chair laughing. We have had 'what about the aquifer' for months to the point where there is nothing more to say, so how that can be interesting escapes me.

      Then it is suggested I have replaced Clarke in the foxtrot oscar brigade although I cannot recall ever having used that expression, however tempting, to anyone. As for Tom Clarke you really do not need to be Poirot to work it out. After a long time of making right of centre comments, though with an evident distaste for the two main parties, he shows UKIP leanings and suddenly stops blogging in the run up to the county council elections. I would hazard a guess he was busy canvassing and is now a UKIP county councillor who will blog no more. Could be wrong but I somehow doubt it.

      Allan Mallinson seems a sensible sort, despite being accused by Retarded of being a retired brigadier who writes books and who is not on the electoral roll. Well, strange as it may sdeem, none of the anonymous contributors or even Retired are on the roll either.

  2. Michael, UKIP did well along much of the East Coast where there are large numbers of immigrants with the resulting social problems. Thanet of course not only has major imported and resident social problems, but the public perception is that TDC particularly (both parties) are corrupt and incompetent and have been for years. The immigrant problems particularly in Cliftonville are dreadful and spreading fast. This leaves normal people feeling disenfranchised and seriously let down by many of their local politicians who are too lazy and pompous and who only communicate at election time. UKIP promise to stop the rot and return our green and pleasant land, but we will have to wait and see. Some of us will be seriously disappointed if they fail to deliver.

    1. Both parties Corrupt ? where is the evidence. annon.

    2. Corruption Tony?

      The Manston air monitors and missing fines: under both Tory and now Labour.

      Pleasurama tax haven: both parties.

      Labour: £25k Chinagate bung. Almost unanimously passed without any blueprints until the day before the vote.

      Tory: 0% salaries: declared but actually secret increases.

      And of course the bureaucrats covering it up as much as possible.

      And you a Ramsgate town council member too. Tut tut. What have you been doing?

    3. The anons do not do evidence, Tony, just throw away allegations. Sad fact of political life.

    4. Tony, Ezekiel was not the only Cllr to 'lean' on officers to get his own way. You should know that such behaviour is endemic in TDC, and that officers will not use the whistleblowing policy for fear of losing their jobs. Instead they will go to extreme lengths to cover things up, again in fear of losing their jobs. The only reason Ezekiel was exposed was not because of an officer whistleblowing. Instead a Councillor insisted that Ezekiel was investigated. It was only after that investigation started that the enforcement officer ran to the Police.

    5. William, all those points are hardly throw away allegations. Take any one - say 0% salaries. Detailed by TDC itself. As 9:40points out we have the civil servants actively engaging in corruption, again 0% would be a perfect example. For fear of losing their jobs isn't necessarily the case they actively benefit in glory projects, huge senior level salaries etc.

    6. Did William or Tony ever reply on these points? It really is very naughty to suggest there is no corruption or that some kind of signed confession or more is required as proof.

      Presumably Tony as a councillor will be calling for a police investigation? Or is it the same cosy greasiness between the Thanet parties that led to the UKIP victory?

      Although by quirk of fate Latchford is one of the Gang of Four so presumably will also be keen to speak up on the corruption and Manston monitors after having previously resigned! What a shambles.

    7. Usual nonsense from Aquifer Man so why would anyone bother to reply. Far too rude to engage in converstion.

    8. What's rude or nonsensical about discussing TDC corruption and the Manston moniotrs?

    9. The subjects have been flogged to death and you dismiss those who disagree with you as old, oafs or stupid. That's rude!

  3. If all the seats had been all single member wards the results may have been a bit different. UKIP would have still won seats but I think labour would have had more if every seat was single member. I cannot understand why some are single member seats and some are two member seats.

    1. Tony the reason some divisions have two seats is based on size. Typically, Margate and Cliftonville has roughly twice as many voters as Birchington and the villages.

      Your assumption about Labour winning more on single seats is wrong. If you combine the votes of the candidates of the same party, UKIP would have taken Birchington, Margate West, Broadstairs and Ramsgate leaving Labour with just Margate and Cliftonville where Will Scobie won a seat anyway. If you take it the highest polling candidate in each then UKIP would have taken the lot in Thanet for Will Scobie was second to the UKIP candidate.

      Tough though it may be to take, both our parties did very badly and our respective leaders need to go back to the drawing board or, better still, start listening to people.

  4. I spent much of the last week, and the two or three before that speaking directly to many many voters; in the main voters who had previously canvassed as conservatives on anything between two and five occasions. There were four clear lines of response to my calls and conversations: many said quite straightforwardly and openly that what they were about to do had nothing to do with me, or my local party performance, they were sending a message to David Cameron pure and simple. Secondly, they talked openly about the immigration, both from europe, and from other parts of the country, which is ruining and dragging down our towns. Thirdly, many (and before anybody jumps, please remember these are conservative voters) stated they were fed up with having voted in a conservative government, who were not conservative enough in their actions, ie too influenced by the Lib Dem part of the coalition. Finally, many of the older voters stated they were angered by the very low interest rates on their savings, and the increasingly heavy taxation of their dwindling income. Overall the message was get tougher on europe, immigration, benefit lifestyles, and stop retending to be a liberal democrat.

    The results overall appear to me to record a serious shift to the right of british politics, with traditional tory voters using UKIP to force more right wing policies, and uniting the blue collar working class with the retired, increasingly under pressure 'worriers' about their, and their grandchildren's future. The shifts are at their most obvious and serious in areas where these problems combine: larger numbers of retired; employment difficulties in areas of high immigration, and benefit dependency. This is reflected in other coastal communities in the south east, and across Lincolnshire as well. If you look at the county council seats, most expected a return to the 2005 position. Yet the Labour party is well short of its 2005 total; and the combined tory and UKIP vote is much higher than the 2005 total.

    Will these voters return to the conservatives and/or labour during the next two years? Only if they feel they are being listened to, and Theresa May's performance this morning around the news studios did not give the right tone to convince the doubters; indeed it was pitiful. As was Angela Eagle for the labour party. How the two traditional main parties now react will decide if this is an historic protest vote; or an historic change of political direction in our society for the foreseeable future. On paper it would appear locally to be a disaster for the conservative party; but the shock waves for labour are at least as traumatic, positioning tself as the defender of the unemployed and benefit claimant as society moves right away from it.

    Any sort of combination between UKIP and the conservatives will see labour banished to the sidelines of politics for a decade or more. The middle ground is no longer where david cameron thought it lay..he needs to get out of metropoliton central, and listen to the shires if he is ever to understand whats happened.

    1. Chris I have been giving this issue some considerable thought, I guess one factor here is that UKIP are pretty much bound to field candidates for all of the TDC seats, so sooner or later there is a likelihood of UKIP having a majority at TDC.

      Another is that UKIP would be in a strong position were they to gather a mayoral referendum petition for TDC and then field a candidate.

      As far as KCC goes, do you think the result will have much practical impact on the running of the county council?

  5. Chris,

    Precisely, it is exactly that.

    I said much the same thing when I was canvassed by the Conservatives after the voting on Thursday. However, I added that come 2015 I would definitely vote for Laura Sandys. But that I would be voting for her herself and not necessarily because she is the Conservative candidate. Rather it would be because she is a superb constituency MP.

    1. I voted for Roger Gale las time for exactly the same reason, and no doubt I will again.

  6. As a result of this election I am sure that before the 2015 TDC elections a number of tory and maybe indepedents councillors will jump ship.

    1. and some MPs doing the same?

    2. Maybe in other parts of the country but Nigel Farage has already lined up Thanet north for himself.

    3. Brilliant. Anything to get rid of Gale.

    4. No chance (and it's "Sir Gale" to you!).

    5. Anon 11:18, I think you are most likely right.

      Anyone want to bet me that Driver isn't already crawling back in shame to the Labour party, as a result of his UTTER rejection at KCC elections..

    6. Allan MallinsonMay 06, 2013 8:42 pm

      Surely even they would not be mad enough to take him. They must have better candidates for it would be hard to imagine worse. Maybe he will join UKIP in time for the European elections. Would not be surprised if Worrow joins Labour though for they deserve each other.

    7. They were stupid enough to take him back once, and as will becoming clear to driver, he is UTTERLY unelectable without them, and as we know, he is desperate for power, no matter what he has to do to secure it.

      Worrow i think is a busted flush. He has humiliated himself to such a large extent, he is electorial poison.

      But I think the electorate of Thanet are WAY to bright to be to be fooled and hookwinked by this pair again in 2015 no matter which party they crawl to, if indeed any will have them.

  7. "But that I would be voting for her herself and not necessarily because she is the Conservative candidate. Rather it would be because she is a superb constituency MP. "

    Sadly, the main parties are still not listening, and this posting by John Holyer illustrates why. They assume that the John Holyers of this world will all revert to type come the next election. I am confident that this will not happen. Most of the people who have voted for UKIP are fed up with the EU. They are fed up with the country being unable to manage its own affairs because of intereference from unelected bureaucrats in Brussels and they are fed up with not being able to depart a terrorist because of the Human Rights Act. Above all, they are fed up with successive government's lax immigration policies. They are not going to revert back to voting Tory even if Laura Sandys has worked her socks off. The only thing that can save the Tory party is a change of leadership and a shift to polcies which appease UKIP. Otherwise they are facing electoral meltdown.

  8. Anon 8:24 pm,

    Please do not purport to speak for me. And when you speak of me I should be grateful if you would remember your manners.

  9. I see ECr has closed down again after the terrible UKIP result. it feels as though the towns have stagnated if not collapsed doesn't it?

  10. Generally it seems the majority of UKIP councillors were previously councillors for some other party, so it seems a case of "same old same old" same folks different flags.


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