Friday, 30 August 2013

Pleasurama and the Ramsgate Tunnels.

Today’s news is centred around this area of Ramsgate, so starting with the tunnels, here are some pictures of the inside of The Ramsgate Tunnels http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/Blogpicts1210/id14.htm

About seven years ago I published a book about The Ramsgate Tunnels http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/catalogue/the_ramsgate_tunnels__main_line_public_airraid_shelter___scenic_railway__.htm and of the 150 or so local history books I have published about this area it is this one that that sells the best.

I guess in terms of people putting their money where there mouth is, then this is likely to be a major visitor attraction when it opens next year.

There is a relationship between the Pleasurama site and the tunnels that goes back to 1860 and so it is interesting that they should both come up in the local news at the same time.

The railway first came to Thanet in 1846 the station being at the top of Chatham Street and very soon after this the line was continued to Margate the station there being on the seafront.

In 1860 one of the rival railway companies extended their line from London to Herne Bay, via Margate and Broadstairs to a station on Ramsgate seafront where the derelict Pleasurama site is now.

Prior to 1860 the beach had extended to the cliff where the Pleasurama site is now, although part of it had a primitive wooden sea defence with the coastguard station on it.

To get the railway to the seafront an inclining railway tunnel was dug from Dumpton to Ramsgate seafront, the chalk spoil from the tunnel being used to build up the level of what is now the Pleasurama site to above the high tide mark so the station could be built there.

Although the tunnel was dug in 1860 the actual opening was delayed until 1863 as parts of the civil engineering works were initially condemned and had to be rebuilt, however on 5th October 1863 having been passed by the government inspector (Captain Rich) Perhaps the 150 year anniversary in about a months time should be celebrated in some way.  

During the First World War Ramsgate was bombed more than most places in the UK, mainly because the zeppelins and primitive aircraft of that time couldn’t get much further, so at the beginning of the Second World war the townspeople, lead by ABC Kempe (the mad mayor) and dick Brimmel the borough engineer, were keen to have a substantial system of public air raid shelters.

The railway station on the seafront and the associated railway tunnel had been closed in 1926 in 1936 a spur tunnel had been built to Dumpton Park Station enabling a narrow gauge link railway to tunnel from that station to the tunnel entrance on the seafront.


So we already had a substantial tunnel system to use as an air raid shelter and in 1939 this was extended under most of Ramsgate.  

There was a plan to reopen the tunnels as a tourist attraction in the 1980 but at that time the entrance was on the Pleasurama site which was leased to Jimmy Godden, my understanding is that he wouldn’t allow the council access to the tunnel entrance unless the council sold him the freehold for the rest of the Pleasurama site.

This information is mostly hearsay so may not be exactly true, trying to unscramble even recent local history isn’t easy.  

Going on to The Royal Sands development on the Pleasurama site, the council have finally published the secret cabinet papers relating to the 2009 decision to grant the developer an time extension and financial concessions, here is the link http://tdc-mg-dmz.thanet.gov.uk/documents/s32682/Un-exempted%20by%20the%20Pleasurama%20Site%20Development%20Review%20Task%20Finish%20Group%20on%2029%20August%202013.pdf this is the much leaked and discussed document that I first received a copy of just after the cabinet meeting where the cabinet decided to grant these concessions against the advice of the offices.

I endeavour to stay within the law so have never published this document in full before, although I was able to publish the parts I was sent under my foi request, the parts that made me so concerned about the cabinet doing this were not included.


The one on the page numbered 186 being a prime example of a Mickey Mouse aspect of the documentation that concerned me greatly, it’s the reference to star rating that clinches it for me.   

I will endeavor to continue this post if i get time.

108 comments:

  1. So hopefully the end game approaches. however caution is needed should the developer feel cornered. I suspect there is a lot more to come before it is resolved.

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    1. Wise words. Previously John Hamilton has graced the threads with reassurances about the Pleasurama Development. He seems nowadays to avoid comment on the issue.

      If you cannot discern your enemy's position beat at his corners. But avoid doing nothing.

      My guess is TDC are being too inactive and that in the end it will cost TDC a packet. Hope for the best but expect the worst.

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    2. Reassurances 8:28? Not me my boy. I have simply pointed where an attempt is made to pass bullshit as fact (james) and to make alarmist claims has been made (Michael).

      Fact is, that throughout the posting of the likes of James's innuendo's, BS and inaccurate guesswork, he has yet to prove any wrong doing by anyone in connection with pleasurama, or indeed anything else.

      He has however been forced to remove inaccurate claims he made against a prominent Kent company, once again proving that all he really has a alarmist and irrelevant guesswork, none of which he can prove.

      Nothing has changed, hence no real comment required re Pleasurama, unless of course I was a bandwagon jumping specialist, looking for a way to desperately get my name in the media, having been laughed at prognosticating about a middle eastern country.

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    3. hammy to set the record straight nowhere in any blog have I ever said Shaun Keegan, Colin Hill et al have EVER done anything illegal however it is clear (and was made clearer at Thursday's meeting) that TDC (up to the 2009 development agreement) failed spectacularly to examine the Bona Fides of this alleged developer thereby allowing Shaun Keegan the opportunity of taking TDC for every penny he could. What was questioned at Thursdays meeting was the "quality" of evidence supplied by Shaun Keegan to prove the funding was available to start the build at the Pleasurama site (remember it had remained empty of development since 2002) Michael has alluded to this "evidence" and it is now freely available to download from TDC. The Councillors, who discussed this Thursday, were extremely wary of taking it further as it could have prejudiced any potential police investigation however all that have seen the "evidence" have remarked on its apparent amateurish appearance. There has been NO innuendo, BS and inaccurate guesswork in this investigation as each and every fact has been thoroughly checked and verified by the Councillors involved in the Task & Finish group.
      As I understand the matter you have done NO investigations of your own, you just have a need to throw as much sh*t up against the wall to see if any will stick. There is possibly another reason, of course, you could be financially involved with Shaun Keegan and you are doing your best to stifle the investigation, if that is true you might as well give up as too much is now in the open for all, who are interested, to read

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    4. That sounds very much like trying to brand by implication, Mr James. My view of this exchange between you and JH is that you have been exposed over your allegations against a construction company, which you then had to delete, whereas JH makes statements, not necessarily in my choice of language, about individuals and one loud mouthed councillor in particular that I tend to agree with. That means he so far has more credibility than you.

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    5. well hello FB mr anon by another name. Your view is irrelevant as in hammy's own words "proof my boy, where is the proof" for the record there are no posts about Cardy made by me, would you like to post any proof that I was made to delete them. maybe you know who their solicitors are. Or are you hammy's buddy posting without a blogging account as hammy is still abed. Hammy is a troll hiding behind anonymity just like yourself.

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    6. Mr James you made the posts about Cardy which those of us who follow the blogs were able to read. That you then deleted them would suggest to any reasonable thinking person that you had at least second thoughts on their validity. Nobody mentioned solicitors, incidentally, until you just did so maybe that was the reason.

      As for all this troll nonsense and Hammy's buddy, suit yourself. What you should remember is I know who you are, but you do not have a clue who I am.

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    7. At this Pleasurama task and finish group Cllr Nicholson appeared very embarrassed when put on the spot about his role in choosing these developers in 2002/3. Fast forward to 2009, and another labour Cllr (whose name escapes me) conceded that the mood music at the time was all about how wonderful it was that this "local" Cardy firm was prepared to rescue the project by putting cash in????

      That was hardly in our best interests now was it FB?


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    8. FB you should reread hammy's posts as he used the word "forced" and he also mentions solicitors. further I know no one with the name FB proving yet again you are trying to hide behind anonymity. If you weren't such a coward you would have no problem speaking to me as a real person. But I won't hold my breath.

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    9. I know who you ALL are!!!

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    10. Well I suppose it is worth considering who could have orchestrated this "mood music" (Cllr Peter Campbell's phrase) as part of continuing efforts to NOT consult the residents of Ramsgate?

      It would be far more constructive (no pun intended), If the developer took me up on my offer to put a team of residents together from Ramsgate to negotiate with them?

      We would not want any judge to conclude NO effort was made by Ramsgate residents to do this, would we?

      I can be emailed via the link published on my Solo Gays profile page on my Gay in Thanet blog, which is visible to the right of Michael's page here.

      All I would want in return is for Winterstoke Gardens to be restored through my community group, as part of a joined up approach to reviving Ramsgate seafront.

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    11. You want Winterstoke Gardens to be a pick-up point for homosexuals in other words... this will hardly bring tourists back to Ramsgate seafront (apart from a few other ageing homosexuals perhaps).

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    12. I am astounded and appalled by your shallow response Peter. We have just received a veiled threat at 1:18 and yet you choose instead to speculate on the sexual proclivities of some of your fellow residents?

      I shall be sending this page to the chief inspector of police. We won't call on you in a crisis then Peter!

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    13. Veiled threats, reporting other bloggers to the police, rubbishing others opinions because, it is alleged, they don't use a real name like Solo Gays or Barry James. What a very sad silly lot you have all become. No wonder some of us prefer to remain anonymous rather than risk being branded by association with such as you.

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    14. What "veiled threat"? All I saw was someone responding to Farnie's post where he said "I know who you are, but you do not have a clue who I am", but I guess I lack your paranoia.

      As for speculating on anyone's sexual preferences, maybe I misunderstood what "Gay in Thanet" means and you were just referring to your joviality...

      Anyway, Winterstoke Gardens should be for everyone.

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    15. Solo Gays is his real name? What were his parents thinking?!

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    16. I know, I should have been consulted!

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    17. Peter some one who hides behind comments such as "What you should remember is I know who you are, but you do not have a clue who I am." is a coward nothing more nor less. If they "know" who I am then introduce themselves and stop hiding behind their keyboard. If anyone wants a debate (like thursday night) about TDC's failing over "due diligence" concerning Shaun Keegan then lets have that debate.
      I have made my investigation available to anyone who asks for it I have nothing to hide unlike FB and hammy. btw many of his facebook profiles have been removed and recently a post hammy made was removed by Facebook as breaching their terms. I doubt he had said anything nice in it thats not in his nature.

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    18. Mr James, I have spoken to you as a real person on a couple of occasions and I am still unimpressed. As for reading JH's post, I was simply referring to what you wrote yourself.

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    19. still a coward hiding behind your keyboard. meaningless rubbish without a point of reference.

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    20. I wonder, Mr James, if you would be prepared to call me a coward to my face or is it simply that you also hide behind your keyboard. Amazing how brave people think they are on a blogsite and you have still done nothing to impress me.

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    21. love to call you a coward for hiding behind anonymity. Introduce yourself

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    22. How very brave, Mr James, and it still proves nothing. This is a blogsite, not a face to face in a downtown bar or on some battlefield somewhere. Think Hammy is right, you are all BS!

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    23. "Brave"? how strange you say that when you hid behind anonymity. You asked a question "I wonder, Mr James, if you would be prepared to call me a coward to my face?" and you got an answer "love to call you a coward for hiding behind anonymity" what is "brave" about that? If you weren't such a coward you wouldn't have a problem introducing yourself. You state you have met me yet I have never met anyone called Farnie Barnard so that makes you a coward nothing more nothing less. Remember you said you had met me I have never met a FB so you are the one hiding not me!!

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    24. OK then, Mr Barry James, what does your google account say about you, that 'Barry James shares no information with you' and not so much as an email address. How does that make you different to me. You have a google account, whoopee, so I should bow to your evident openness. It is you Mr James who on a blogsite calls others cowards, you that describes their comments as meaningless rubbish and you even imply I am a liar. Do you know, it is possible to meet someone, particularly in a group, without being formally introduced.

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    25. I have just checked our Facebook Page and we now have 3 Likes (could do with a few more though?). Combined with our official membership of 3, I guess you could call that steady growth at a pinch!? Could do with a few more either way. Cllr Chris Wells can vouch for the bonafides of our governing document for its inclusivety.

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    26. you say you have met me so why haven't you added some context. Was in in Ramsgate Town centre or at a Council meeting perhaps, maybe at the Belgium Bar. I meet many people and don't need someone to make a formal introduction. As I said I do not hide behind anonymity obviously you do. As I said before if you want to discuss Pleasurama face to face I have no problem with that, other bloggers on here have done just that. I won't hold my breath you are all talk and no action.

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    27. Mr James, you said you had never met anyone called Farnie Barnard and I merely pointed out that there is no way you could know that. Think of a tall middle aged man with a South African accent and it might jog your memory. At no point in this exchange did I mention Pleasurama so why would I suddenly want to discuss it. I see you also ignore the fact that to anyone who does not know you locally or through FORS, you are as anonymous on this blogsite as you claim I am. Your google account reveals nothing about you.

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    28. SG, if you told us what your FB group was called (or even linked to it) then you might get a few more "likes". Not from me though.

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    29. Peter, the link is set out at the foot of the text of the recent blog post I did "Gay in Thanet on Facebook."

      You are right there is always more that can I can do to promote the page, but I am wary of promoting this too much too soon.

      On your last point, as you are probably aware, likes will only show up on my dash board, and I promise I will not use it to try to pick up blokes! What I shall "pick up" on is your prior observation along the lines of joviality: "You Don't Have to be Gay to be Gay in Thanet!"

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    30. Great, but I'm not on Facebook anymore. Even my own former FB groups ("Naked in Thanet" and "Checkers' Kent Treks") are gone.

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    31. I can understand why Peter, I suppose it has its limitations,a bit like blogging. They are useful to gauge opinion though and can provide soloace, amusment and enlightenment I have found. Also quite good for arranging social events on your personal page, even if very few turn up!

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    32. Mr James, the fact you do not remember me, despite me giving you a description, does not make me any more anonymous on a blogsite than you. The difference is you use a google account, but that says sweet nothing about you, and I don't. We both use a name and there are people who know us, however, most visitors to this site probably don't. In truth, I am probably less anonymous than you as my accent is more uncommon in these parts.

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    33. Farnie Barnard,

      Ek gee op. Wie is jy?

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    34. I did say FB more context is needed so why don't you give it?

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    35. Barry, I do not know who actually started the Friends of Ramsgate Seafront Facebook Page? with over 1000 members and climbing, that is quite an achievement really.

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    36. Solo I believe it was 4 people who had realised people had to be mobilised to get something done about the fiasco that was Pleasurama. I think the catalyst was the potential sale of the freehold to a failed developer

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    37. Mr James, where exactly did you say more context is needed and why exactly am I supposed to give it when you google page says absolutely nothing about you. Like I said before, we both use a name, but short of birth certificates nobody knows if either of us is using their real one.

      John Holyer, are you some kind of fundi on Bok speak?

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    38. at 7:15 FB I said "I did say FB more context is needed so why don't you give it?" did that not show on your feed? You originally said "What you should remember is I know who you are, but you do not have a clue who I am." now you say there is nothing on my google profile. so just what do you know or are you backtracking? I most assuredly am real and have met plenty of FORS members during the past 6 months but I haven't met you as far as I know. Context means a venue or at what meeting did you and I speak or are you just inventing it

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    39. Over 1000 members is very impressive. Even the Naked in Thanet FB group only enticed around 800 people.

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    40. Mr James, you clearly have some understanding difficulties. I asked where before your 7:15 comment you had previously asked about context and the point on your google site is that you are no more authenticated by it than I am by simply using my name. No way am I backtracking, but this exchange is going nowhere. You clearly see having a google account as making you some kind of pukka sahib whereas those of us who pop up occasionally and just use our names are anonymous trolls. So be it for it hardly matters.

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    41. pukka correct. you stated you knew me (your words not mine) you stated your accent was South African which implies I would know you from your speech mannerisms. yet you seem unable to say where we had met and under what circumstances. It is utterly irrelevant that I have a Google account as you are talking about a meeting in the real world and a Google account is to do with the internet. So Farnie get real either state where and when we met or go away. You are correct in that your opinion matters little as it is all bluster with no substance.

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    42. Farnie Barnard 9:07pm,

      Geen man, net verwar.

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    43. Mr James, I was right, you completely misunderstanding the point which originated about you claiming that I hide behind my keyboard simply because, unlike you, I do not have a google account. I mentioned meeting you, or perhaps more correctly, being at places where we were both present to establish the point that I know what you look like. I make no claim to having a heart to heart chat or being old buddies because, this exchange alone, where you constantly use insults, would rule that out. You are not my kind of person. As for going away, please be my guest, for you can foxtrot oscar any time you like.

      John Holyer, perhaps I should have made my origins clearer, but the term South African as an accent is more easily understood by the average person in UK not familiar with the variations to be found across the south and east of that continent. Coming from the more Anglo-Saxon influenced north of the Limpopo I do not speak Afrikaans though, of course, the odd word crops up in every day speak. Typically I tend to have braais in this weather.

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    44. "Farnie BarnardAugust 31, 2013 2:21 pm

      Mr James, I have spoken to you as a real person on a couple of occasions" and further you said "Think of a tall middle aged man with a South African accent" further you have just said "or perhaps more correctly, being at places where we were both present"
      No misunderstanding Farnie these are your words not mine. Also calling you a coward for hiding behind your keyboard now seems to be more appropriate the deeper the hole you dig for yourself. Now again I ask what 2 occasions were you in the same venue and secondly how do you form an impression of someone without first speaking with them.

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    45. You two, will you please take it outside! It was bad enough having the blog overtaken by a couple of old men reminiscing about the Korean war (or whatever it is they ramble on about), but now they've been replaced by a couple of old women!

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    46. Mr James your lack of grasp of the thread of a debate makes continuing with this exchange utterly pointless. All it has done for me is to help me further understand why John Hamilton has so little respect for anything you say. I shall not respond again, but I am sure, irritating petty person that you are, you will want to have the last word so help yourself.

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    47. Sorry, Peter, and I totally agree that it must be ultra boring for others to see two people flogging a dead horse type of exchange. As I have already told Mr James, I shall not respond again. Even the Korean War memories must have been more interesting than two people arguing over who is the most anonymous.

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    48. Farnie Barnard,

      Sorry, I lived in Africa for 4 years and consequently I get a bit nostalgic whenever the continent is mentioned. I do not speak Afrikaans; I was just messing about with google translate for the fun of it. Best to ignore me.

      Enjoy your barbeque.

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    49. Peter 10:36am

      I missed this discussion on the Korean War. I would like to have read their comments. Michael Caine is an 'old man' who fought with distinction in the Korean War. Not a lot of people know that.

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    50. Excellent James, FINALLY you admit that SFP, Keegan etc etc etc have done nothing wrong in connection with pleasurama, and you have been making baseless allegations which you have no evidence or proof top support on any level. You really are to investigative "skills" what Driver is to successful selective campaigning ;)

      Excellent, I am vindicated by your admission you have simply been posting unsubstantiated bullshit for the last few months, glad we finally got that cleared up.

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    51. John, once heard Michael Caine describing being on a night patrol when they suddenly realised they were in the midst of a much larger force of Chinese soldiers going the other way. They had to freeze until the danger was over, but he said that is why as an actor he can do fear so well.

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    52. please state where I accused Shaun Keegan of doing anything illegal in any post on any blog. I think you have a problem with reality or you need an amanuensis to read big words for you.

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    53. As stated James, it's pleasing to see you FINALLY confirm you no proof or evidence that Keegan, SFP etc are guilty of any wrongdoing whatsoever, inspite of your torrent of BS and innuendo directed at all and sundry. Much like your confirmation that you posted incorrect innuendo and disinformation regarding Cardy's good standing.

      Great to see youconfirm what i have been exposing all this time well done in admiting your many failures boy ;-)

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    54. So you spout more rubbish hammy. I will ask again "please state where I accused Shaun Keegan of doing anything illegal in any post on any blog" when you can't then the rest of the audience will judge what an ill mannered idiot you really are. 6 Councillors who read all the Pleasurama papers came to the same conclusion, are they all wrong as well?

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    55. I don't think he is an ill mannered idiot, but you James are a crushing bore with your off thread personal exchanges. Every one who follows the local blogs knows you have spouted a load of rubbish about the Pleasurama scenario with nothing to back any of it up. We also all know that you deleted all your ill found comments about Cardy. Frankly you are a joke but not a very funny one.

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    56. hammy as an anon now defending his bs

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    57. There are many more than me that regard you as the joke you are James, I have no need to post as anon whatsoever.

      Once again, I know you find facts impossible digest, but here I go again..

      "As stated James, it's pleasing to see you FINALLY confirm you no proof or evidence that Keegan, SFP etc are guilty of any wrongdoing whatsoever, inspite of your torrent of BS and innuendo directed at all and sundry. Much like your confirmation that you posted incorrect innuendo and disinformation regarding Cardy's good standing.

      Great to see youconfirm what i have been exposing all this time well done in admiting your many failures boy ;-)"

      Now, where did I ever say that you had accused Keegan of illegality James.... Besides, as you acknowledge, he, SFP etc etc are guilty of no wrong doing as you confirm, which simply underlines that the rest of the BS you post is simply innuedo, unevidenced, evidenceless BS :)

      Any further comments from you about the financial standing of the well known Kent building company Cardy's, are you prepared to stand by what you posted when you knew you had no evidence to back up your claim, as usual?

      Not difficult to understand James, all you have ever posted is unfounded and unevidensed BS, that is ALL you're known for.

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    58. James, I made the comment at 10:48 PM and I am most definitely not John Hamilton. You seem to have a problem accepting that there are more of us out here who find your constant personal exchanges, first with Farnie and then John, on this site very boring. Stick to the thread and resolve your problems with your ego by using your own site or commenting on Hamilton's in future. There's a good chap.

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    59. Sadly, James is welcome to comment on my blog, but doesn't have the balls to post on a site where he isn't protected from unrestricted ridicule and exposure for what he is. H prefers to post inaccurate bullshit where he can be protected, such as on this blog.

      I wouldn't take him seriously 10:04, none of the rest of us do :)

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    60. Are you delusional Hamilton in thinking you speak for anyone but yourself. As to posting on your blog I see you censor posts and only seem to allow posters who agree with your views. Your remark about Smithson proves this "If you commented on this blog and it hasn't appeared, please repost, and I will publish (not you smithson, you're a cock whose comments are to laughable to be posted)" dated 30th August 2013

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    61. Smithson might be a cock but at least he has the balls to meet his detractors face to face, unlike cowardly bully Hamilton!!!

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    62. Oh no anon, i have quite a large following, and pretty much anyone who draws breath knows what a joke James is.

      There is only 1 person whose posts won;t appear on my blog, and that's smithson, as the description of him by a local councillor is 100% accurate, and I expect a far better standard of post than he is able to manage, poor boy thinks he's 007!

      I don't allow anon comments as the standard of post is low, as you prove. Anyone else, go for it, give it your best shot ;)

      Why would I want to spend my free time with my detractors, what a peverse comment anon, and again proof as to why anon comments are not allowed on my bog.

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    63. Is there ANYONE on here who has actually met "John Hamilton"? No, I thought not.

      We now have your IP address though, despite you trying to be clever and diverting it from the USA! So we WILL meet very soon dear boy!

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    64. It would be good if you showed up at protests to give your views though John. That's why I've moved away from the pro-Arlington Tesco thing to an extent (though I still very much want it to happen); you're the spokesman for this, so you're the best man to be interviewed by local radio, the press etc.

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    65. Hamilton keeps saying that barry is posting BS without proof but as yet there is no sign of hamilton posting anything concrete making him the poster of much BS. I have looked at barry's blog and much makes sense with enough clues given to enable my own Google research. Maybe Hamilton ought to get off his backside and do his own research instead of ridiculing what others have done.

      Hamilton the exponent of "don't do as I do, do as I say"

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    66. How would I know if i'd met you anon, would you be called A, or mr/mrs non? I see you have caught smithson disease, you really seem to think you work for MI6, whereas you won't even use your name as I do ;) You's excuse me if I treat you as the jerk you have proven to be ;)

      I have little interest in spending my spare time ridiculing nimbys live Peter. My spare time is hard earnt, and very valuable. Humiliating the likes of pengelley and James live, although appealing, really isn't a way I would choose to spend my leisure time.

      Yet another cowardly anon to deal with! Simply reading through James drivel, and his own admission to prove he has not a shred of evidence of any wrong doing by Keegan, SPF, TEF or anyone else, let alone his clear lack of basic knowledge as to basic buisness practices.

      Not to mention of course him being forced to remove the allegations he made up about a prominent Kent building firm.

      You maybe gullible enough to swallow James's bullshit whole, but the rest of us see it as what it is, baseless innuendo, and outright bullshit ;)

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    67. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    68. Can anybody explain why this thread starts off with Farnie Barnyard needling away at Barry James and ends up with John Hamilton doing the same? Are they a tag team; one jumps out of the ring and the other jumps in. Or is it that they are one and the same. I think we should be told.

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    69. Why should you be told, Anon, and who might you be? In any case it might just be that Barry James needles away at anybody who does not agree with him.

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    70. It's 2 people who won't allow James to post wanton BS without exposing it, and pointing out what inaccurate bullshit it actually is 7:20.

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  2. What a waste of time and money

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  3. We explored these tunnels in the 50s as children. We forced access via the Ellington Park entrance. It was exciting and great fun.

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    1. You should've been arrested!

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  4. The tunnels can be a nuisance. A friend of mine had a house with an 80ft. ventilation shaft in his driveway. It's capped, but when he came to sell his house there were delays because the new owner's mortgage company and surveyor wanted to know who owned the tunnels and who was responsible for maintaining them. I don't know if they ever got a definitive answer but the house was sold in the end so they must have had an answer that satisfied them.

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    1. Anonymous 8:33 pm - Could you please contact the Ramsgate Tunnels Project team at admin@ramsgatetunnels.org to confirm some details of this shaft. Thanks in anticipation.

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    2. Why ? It's a bloody great hole. If you've mapped the tunnels you can't have failed to notice it. And I've no intention of contacting you if it is likely to lead to problems for the new owners of the property.

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    3. Anon 11.16 pm - The request was merely to clarify the exact position of the shaft without discussing it in public. An old ordnance survey map positions it in the area of someone's driveway whereas local knowledge places it under a nearby manhole. Our only interest is in having accurate knowledge. The shaft is outside the scope of the tunnels project.

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    4. But who are you? Are you working on the tunnels in any official capacity or are you just a bunch of people who have an interest?

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    5. Anonymous 2:18 pm,

      More to the point who are you, and why are you so curmudgeonly.

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    6. Anonymous 4:42 pm,

      In a similar vein, who are you and why are you getting involved in a conversation that doesn't involve you ?

      Delete
    7. I'm Spartacus!

      Delete
    8. Anon, 7:01PM,

      I'm getting involved because it pleases me to do so. You should know that the circumstances of my involvement are not dependent upon your approval.

      Delete
    9. And hereby lies the entire problem with Michael's blog. Nasty little twits who decide to intervene in discussions by posting abuse aimed at other posters.

      Delete
    10. Anon 5:35 pm,

      And anon 5:35 you are a case in point of the pot calling the kettle black.

      Delete
    11. Could you say that in English please?

      Delete
    12. I completely agree: "And hereby lies the entire problem with Michael's blog. Nasty little twits who decide to intervene in discussions by posting abuse aimed at other posters". Just read any of the above dozens of posts for petty nastiness and stupidity and we wonder why the towns are a mess.

      Delete
  5. Sounds like an enormous money pit, perhaps there is £3.3 million lying down there somewhere.
    You should be careful about using Mickey Mouse in connection with TDC, Disney is very successful operation where tdc is........

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Very positive Anonymous 9:06 pm. And your plan is ...?

      Delete
  6. Anon 8:42pm,

    I hear you've been nicked for stealing ladies underwear, yet again

    ReplyDelete
  7. A few weeks ago an Allan Mallinson commented on this blog stating that I had accused a cllr of perjury, in a comment, the week his wife died.

    I have been in touch with Michael and I have conducted a search of my emails and of the internet.

    I can find nothing. The obituary was September 2010. I note there was a blog thread on Tim Garbutts blog naming the cllr. I note there was a platform storming verbal outburst by a member of public against a cllr October 2010.

    I see that in January 2010 Justin true's solicitors issued abuse of process action against Kent Police in Thanet Magistrates. And I recall I prepared a report and copies for his solicitors concerning 6th Thanet Gun range ready, as I understand it, for senior police to be cross examined at a later hearing at Canterbury Crown Court in a prosecution against Justin.

    I note that in Feb 2010 Chief constable Fuller announced his retirement.

    As far as I know at the Crown Court hearing later that year no police witnesses turned up and CPS had to quit the field. So I have told Michael it would have been a time I would have been wary of sub judice. And this 6th Thanet case was one which involved a member of Kent Police Authority Cllr William Hayton.

    if Allan Mallinson could email Michael details of the basis for his comment for me to check that would be helpful.

    With regard to Simon Moores who made a comment accusing me of naming and libelling cllrs on other blogs. I can say that to date he has refused to comply with defamation pre-action protocol. And even yesterday he was emailing trying to refer me to the TDC solicitor Harvey Patterson. And again I had to email MOORES you don't get a solicitor at public expense just because you a cllr.

    so far then Simon Moores has refused to answer any pre-action questions. The names of the cllrs he referred to. the form of words he would claim are libellous. the names of the other blogs. Details of any action or gfinding of guilt for libel (There are none)

    Let's be clear. Look at libel the same way you look at THEFT. As the theft of a persons reputation. You would not write on a blog that someone stole would you ? Unless you could cite a Court finding of guilt. It is the same when bandying the word libel about.

    You can consider something potentially libellous (although that is a bit of an oxymoron) but you should avoid making a statement that someone libelled someone else unless that is a finding of guilt in a Court of law.

    I have contacted a number of people directly including Peter Checksfield and William Epps. Epps replied via Broadstairs Town Clerk that he would not take a view. Well don't take a view on a public forum then that you will not back up one to one eh ?

    Peter I don't have a beef with. But I have provided my email to enable him to question me if he wishes to ask me questions before concluding that I am a conspiracy theorist again.

    So if Allan puts his evidence to Michael I will check it out and respond.

    Richard

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Facinating stuff anonymous 9:35 but who are you?

      Delete
    2. Richard, your comment about the councillor committing perjury was on BigNewsMargate and deleted by Tony Flaig after it was drawn to his attention. Since the perjury you allege has been reported by you to the appropriate authorities, yet no action has been taken, I think it is reasonable to suggest that no evidence, at least sufficient for the CPS to bring a case to court, exists. That being so your constant references to a councillor by name as being guilty of perjury must constitute a libel.

      In this post you disclose details of a private exchange of emails so it is hardly surprising people choose not to respond to you. You have no concept of confidentiality or privacy.

      Delete
    3. In order to put the record straight, Richard Card did not contact me directly but sent an email to the Broadstairs Town Clerk raising certain issues and enquiring of the Town Clerk as to whether I was a certain blogger, as if there is anyway the Town Clerk could know, and even, would you believe, how old I am. The Town Clerk responded copying me on both the received email and reply.

      The fact of the matter is that the matters raised do not concern me as an individual or councillor and personal details are just that, personal. I have absolutely no desire to be drawn into issues involving historic IRA bombings, gun ranges in Birchington or allegations against certain councillors in respect of the latter.

      Michael, I did not realise you had become a post office for Mr Card.

      Delete
    4. It seems Cllr Epps has been defaming Richard and has been pulled up on the matter. Similarly Cllr Moores seems to be seeking a TDC lawyer and public funds to cover comments made to or about Richard and others.

      Quite frankly my view is that both Epps and Moores are of the low standard we've come to expect from our councillors eg Harrison, Gregory etc. None of them seem likely to improve the area only make things worse.

      Delete
    5. How quaint, Anon 8:21, but also how pathetic. Just who do you think has pulled me up and how would some anonymous blogger know anyway. How is it you see describing rubbish as rubbish as defamation, but you calling named councillors as of low standard is not.

      For a moment there I had decided to give up on contributing to this blog, but then thought why should I give in to an anonymous troll who simply insults people or some old chap with a vivid imagination who sends emails to all and sundry.

      Hi, Michael, took your advice and decided to keep trying.

      Delete
  8. It’s been a long day and I have just got around to reading the comments here, I don’t really know what to say.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Maybe it would be a start if you were to analyse the comments and state whether you believe the problem lies solely with those who are posting anonymously. Somehow, those who are using names (both real and faked) believe that your issue is with anonymous posters; a misunderstanding which has been bolstered by your decision to temporarily ban anonymous comments. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression is that you are irritated by the persistent introduction of off-topic material and the postings which do nothing other than respond to other posters by abusing them. Much of this activity is by named posters (whether those names are real or not). I think it would helpful if you were to set out (briefly) the standards you would like to see. After all, it's your blog and it's for you to decide what is and is not acceptable.

      Delete
  9. Must admit. I have been to the pub. I havent clicked on the link to see the doc. I have read the diatribe.

    To me - it seems clear. There are opposing views.

    Can we not try to find a mid ground rather than trying to score points off each other? This seems to be the tactic of TDC councillors (since it was formed?) and its a shame. If we could take the hate out of the arguments, we may move forward. And as for john, sorry for his comments. I am not sure he doesnt mean them really.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Duncan Smithson,

    You examined the argument and discovered the cause of it was, "opposing views". Thank you I hadn't spotted this. You latched onto the problem with alacrity, and that's no mean feat bearing in mind that you have been down the pub.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Seems smithsons BS is as irrelevant when he's pissed when he's sober.

      Delete

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