Saturday, 31 August 2013

Two seaplanes in Ramsgate Harbour August 1914

The original photo is a bit on the small side so the definition isn’t that great, even so it should expand fairly well when clicked on.

I think they are Sopwith type S seaplanes, the date is about right and they look like pushers with radial engines, I know most were supplied to the Greek government but I think two were RNS. Anyone else got any better ideas?

165 comments:

  1. Is that a Thames barge in the background ?

    The latest Ian Driver link on your sidebar goes to a red thanet blog spot ?

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  2. Nope 10.59 she is a typical Ramsgate Sailing Trawler, ketch rigged, and called a “dandy”. She has jib, Foresail, Mainsail, Main-topsail, and Mizzensail set.

    I think this is because Ian has had his blog hacked.

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    1. And there was me thinking the local Green party rep was offering free posters of super heroes and weird triffids. At least it made a change from his usual blustering rubbish.

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    2. And what do you post on your blog?

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    3. Don't have one, 7:34, for I could never compete with the skills of the likes of Michael or Simon Moores and would not wish to add to the rubbish like Driver's site.

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    4. Lifting the debate above Mallinson and JH's vitriol I saw not just one but two cars in the George VI park today and the TDC dustcart with both TDCers smoking and sunbathing amid the litter. Why are we paying them?

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    5. I know it would be more effective if I complained to the council about them, but I prefer to whine on blogs anonymously.

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    6. Or post whiney anon comments on blog whines like you 12:03?

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    7. Just another Thanet In-Bred sounding off. Cancer what cancer? Why are there no jobs? Why doesn't the council do anything?

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    8. The kiosk car and TDC dustcart in the park again - only one council sunbather amidst the litter though. Why do we pay them?

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    9. 1:50, what did TDC say when you complained to them about this?

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    10. Not their job, was there a photo/reg number, find the relevant person, log it, file it, bin it. That sort of thing: the usual inaction.

      Why would anyone think of parking in the park though?

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    11. Peter will sort it! You can't be nudist next to a dustbin van in the park!

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    12. Well at least you complained anonymously on a blog 1:50, that showed 'em!

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    13. Too right Peter - and you've simply done nothing! That'll show 'em!

      You haven't explained why you think it's OK to park in the park? Why would it not be a good idea?

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    14. I had a chat with the TDC workers in the park, & they said they'll try to look more busy next time a weirdo stares at them in case it's you.

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    15. That's me told Peter! Unless...the dustmen thought you were the weirdo? Did you have your clothes on?

      Why would parking in a park (busy or not, clothed or not) not be a good idea though?

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    16. Ok, you win Peter. I've now emailed TDC, KCC, BBC, KGB & TUC. That'll show them!

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  3. Looking forward to seeing Driver publish the identity of the person who has hacked his web-site. It will be interesting to find out who Driver's most vocal critic really is and what he does for a living.

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    1. We know who it is 2:13. We're just assembling together absolute proof before taking legal action, so expect an announcement soon.

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    2. Ha, bloody ha, Anon, you know who it is. Where do you find your jokes because I need to avoid that source.

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    3. Is it that bloke who goes on about not knowing the difference between civil servants and local government? He's annoying but shouldn't be jailed.

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    4. Is it macgonigal? The rubbish she writes on the TDC website is unbelievable and she's led Driver a right old dance with his FOI documents.

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    5. Is it Mallinson? I like it when he asks for proof of corruption. What, like a receipt? Then he says there is no corruption at TDC - without proof! Despite the Leader being jailed. Hilarious.

      Or he tag teams with Holyer complaining about insults after he's insulted everyone first. I nearly wet myself laughing then. Is it him? I'm chuckling already.

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    6. No it is not because I just got back from holiday. See it is still the same old drivel on here with the Anonymous clown back.

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  4. Thanks Michael. A "Dandy". My mate's brother owns a Thames barge which I think they sometimes bring in to Ramsgate. I thought of them because their late father was an engineer for Short Bros (?) who I think did seaplanes. I am about to google because I seem to think their factory was in Kent.

    It is a shame if Ian is getting hacked. It is a wider issue too because decent people who might feel like standing for office and performing public service will see this sort of underhanded hacking behaviour and understandably think twice.

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  5. Thanks Michael. A "Dandy". My mate's brother owns a Thames barge which I think they sometimes bring in to Ramsgate. I thought of them because their late father was an engineer for Short Bros (?) who I think did seaplanes. I am about to google because I seem to think their factory was in Kent.

    It is a shame if Ian is getting hacked. It is a wider issue too because decent people who might feel like standing for office and performing public service will see this sort of underhanded hacking behaviour and understandably think twice.

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    1. Before WW1 Ramsgate had a fleet of about 200 fishing trawlers. Steam trawlers came to Ramsgate in 1919. The “Wishful” first to come, was later rammed and sunk by an oil tanker in Rye Bay.

      I don’t think Ian’s hack was anything to do with people who disagree with his views, I doubt any with the ability would bother, it looks like a commercial hack to sell advertising and probably originated outside the UK.

      I guess the problem with councillors and the blogs is much more one of cyber bullies threatening them with bad publicity, legal action, insane accusations and so on.

      The net result of this is that now our councillors are very reluctant to communicate with us the local council taxpayers and business ratepayers in a public forum.

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    2. You're joking Michael. the councillors have never commented on anything. Nor do they reply to phone calls or emails. To be fair every time they open their mouth they prove how foolish they are.

      Look at Cllr Epps as an example with the fracking or 0% salary concerns. He issues some waffle on how not to raise 0% with Cllr Moores or his Party then goes quiet because he knows it's true.

      I'd like my 0% council tax monies back wouldn't you? I see TDC are busy issuing 5,000 bailiff notices each year to the public in one of the worst recessions yet busy covering up this sort of corruption.

      While Southern Water have been fined £200k for 20 tons of cack on £200M profits. And Infratil not fined at all by our supine councillors.

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    3. Interesting thoughts there anon 10.50 you appear have gripes with TDC, Infratil and Southern Water and appear to think spamming the local blogs and cyber bullying a Broadstairs parish councillor would produce some objective, possibly a council tax refund.

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    4. Maybe I'll write some letters to them, revealing my identity. But probably not, as I'm too scared.

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    5. I think we all have gripes with TDC Michael: they're incompetent aren't they? The 0% salaries is mere corruption though with our money.

      Similarly with SW - so much so that they've been prosecuted by the Environment Agency. Although will such a small fine deter? It certainly hasn't since the 20 tons incident as further leaks have happened.

      And as for Infratil how polluted is the site and where are the monitors and fines?

      It's all a lot of money wasted - let's hope the bailiffs are used more often at TDC to grasp the last few pennies from the public?

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    6. It would be interesting from FOI (if TDC still bother with it!) to see how much is spent on bailiffs and court costs etc. Surely the clerks could do the collections rather than sending some thugs around?

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    7. 6000 bailiff visits: £100 a go at least? £600k and probably nearer £1M. Plus the exisiting TDC salary bill and pensions etc.?

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    8. £20-30M wages and pensions costs at TDC? Not sure at KCC. Anyone know? I do object to these Volvos and chauffeurs and the taxi costs for The Duffers to swan around in. Cars and drivers and taxis at TDC? They still have the free council parking?

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    9. I think credit cards for expenses were stopped at KCC although if TDC councillors don;t have sight of the accounts each month maybe the KCC ones don't either.

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  6. Talking of Ian's site, any chance of updating http://thanetblogs.blogspot.co.uk/ Michael? It has the old defunct blog of Ian's on there, and as this is pretty much the only way I read what's happening on local blogs I didn't even know he'd been hacked until I read the comments above.

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  7. A cyber bully, by definition, wouldn't issue legal process would he Michael ?

    Insane accusations would be self evident wouldn't they ?

    Bad publicity would require something to have happened that gave rise to the "Bad".

    So you haven't made an argument. And since there was never actually a halcyon era of open responsive cllrs then blogging cannot be held responsible for a situation that pre-existed it.



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    1. Whether a cyber bully would or would not issue legal proceedings is irrelevant, 6:12, because the threat is sometimes off putting in itself. Bad publicity can be invented without a grain of truth in it. The trouble is that some people subscribe to the no smoke without fire theory thus, unfairly stigmatising on the basis of someone's false allegation.

      As to councillors on the net, well not so long ago Will Scobie, Mike Harrison, David Green, Ian Gregory and John Worrow all had blogsites whilst others like Chris Wells and Bill Epps often joined in debates. They have now all packed up, or rarely comment, leaving just Simon Moores and Ian Driver regularly commenting on political matters. The last two are also regularly insulted for their trouble. Maybe the rude and the malicious do have something to answer for, 6:12 PM.

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    2. Ian Gregory? I think you mean Ken Gregory, and he and Mike Harrison pretty much packed up after they got into trouble for certain comments; Will Scobie and John Worrow however (ironically) probably packed up at least partly because of Simon Moores!

      I do miss Chris Wells' comments though, just as I miss his comments on the largely successful Folk Week this year after he predicted chaos.

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    3. Probably the best ever local blog by a (then) cllr was this one: http://marknottingham.blogspot.co.uk/

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    4. Thanks, Peter, for pointing out the error because I did mean Ken Gregory. Not sure where you got the idea Chris predicted chaos for Folk Week because he is always very supportive of the event and was well aware of the extra measures taken this year to ensure it was free from the problems of 2012.

      Yes, Mark Nottingham's was a good site despite the political bias, but, for whatever reason, all these councillor sites have now gone and the chance to exchange views with them is denied us. See you blame Simon Moores in part, but it is much more likely to be down to likes of Rick and old 0% whilst Worrow, not without some justification, was hounded by all and sundry.

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    5. "Political bias"? Surely all cllrs blogs are politically biased...

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    6. Perhaps I should have stressed the difference between the party bias shown by all political types and the out right bigotry of some, like Mark, on the left. Mind you, I doubt he is so enthralled with the world of socialism these days after he was shafted by Thanet Labour.

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    7. MIchael could always raise his concerns with Ramsgate Town Council and be ignored there? This blog is increasingly dull pensioners whining about yesteryear. Perhaps that's Ramsgate at its best now it's the bottom 5th seaside town.

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    8. Anon 10:57am,

      Yeah, whining pensioners such as you, with your dull monotonous drivel about 0%, Manston, etc. All the time spitting at passers by from behind your grubby net curtains.

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    9. What's dull about the 0% corruption by our senior councillors and clerks? That's rather interesting isn't it? Expensive too. How dare you suggest my net curtains are grubby. Or that I spit on them or passers by you foolish oaf.

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  8. Ah Peter, seat of the pants JavaScript, been a long day, so perhaps later on.

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    1. On the WW1 seaplanes, was Ramsgate bombed in that war?

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    2. 8.52 click here for details of the worst raid on Ramsgate in WW1

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    3. Many thanks Michael - unusual to have bombings not by Zeppelin? Is there a particular Canadian Army connection with Ramsgate?

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  9. I have taken steps to secure my site from further attacks. I hope that my actions are sufficient. I intend to continue blogging despite this incident and would urge John Hamilton and Mr Mallinson to continue advertising my site.

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    1. Must have been a shock for you Ian? Mind you, some of the free artwork briefly advertised on your site has been pressed into service!

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    2. I will always ridicule your bandwagoners united siteto as wide an audience as possible Driver ensuring that your future ekection results are as similar to the humiliation righfuly inflicted upon you by the electorate at the KCC elections :-)

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    3. Did Driver ever get the Pleasurama FOI etc that he was refused? Do any of the councillors get this info or the accounts each month? Rather than childish bickering with each other they should be having reports from Mcgonigal and scruitnising the accounts and staff performance?

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    4. I'm asking via this blog Peter, do keep up and non-comments like your do tend to spoil the discussion. Do you know about FOI Pleasurama and TDC accounts etc?

      On your point below, this blog ground to a halt in terms of debates with out the Anon comments. Holyer wittering about whatever and JH insulting Driver or Michael's anal detailing of his sandwiches proved less than interesting. Your nudie escapades would liven things up though as with Dreamland and Pleausrama and Ferrygate resolved to some extent there is little happening in Thanet beyond the ongoing decline.

      Why have the councilors not resigned for such failure? Are they hoping to continue on to 2015 and be re-elected again? What are Latchford's UKIP upto? Is Macgonigal still collecting salary and pension?

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    5. 2.17 I guess it’s your charm and empathy that gets you the results you so rightly deserve

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    6. The biggest decline in Thanet has been the blogs, mine included! Who fancies getting their kit off?

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    7. Neither of these comments move the discussion on, say Ferrygate, forwards. I suppose that's why Ramsgate and Margate have done so badly in recent years as seaside towns. Almost nothing is left.

      In fact, nothing is left is it? Just a corrupt, expensive and ineffective council. And a few pensioners whinging about yesteryear and cancer.

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    8. Margate has improved greatly in recent years... and even pensioners whinging about yesteryear is better than you whinging about today! I suggest you leave your computer & go for a nice stroll around Margate old town.

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    9. "Margate has improved greatly in recent years"

      Oh no it hasn't.

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    10. I agree with Peter. The Old Town and the seafront is looking much better these days. Sure, the High Street and Cliftonville are still looking shabby, but Rome wasn't regenerated in a day. Just the other week I was walking along the promenade with some foreign visitors who remarked how lovely they thought the beach was.

      Knock Margate and Ramsgate all you like, but there's some beautiful beaches, the countryside's on our doorstop, and there's a lot of nice people living here.

      Shame about some of the folks on the blogs.

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    11. In my opinion the rejuvenation of Margate Old Town is an unqualified success. It's a pleasant place to be.

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    12. Margate certainly has not improved greatly. Except perhaps going from abysmal to awful. Peter seems happy with minor improvements, yet Margate is rated the 2nd worst UK high street and 7th worst seaside town and Cliftonville the worst ward in the SouthEast. Hardly great improvements. Nor much sign of further improvement.

      And little to boast about given WC has helped ruin the town and Dreamland is derelict, so is Manston the supposed catalyst for regneration and Pfizer has lost 4k jobs - and the Turnip took 15 years to build twice.

      Even 6:26 would agree the beautiful beaches have been tampered with by SW and TDC. They certainly didn't build the beaches otherwise they would no doubt be a mess.

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    13. Anonymous 6:49,

      Why don't you get a soap box down on the front and give me a good laugh.

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    14. Please do us all a BIG favour and move far, far away to somewhere else then 6:49. There's a good chap.

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    15. Nobody's mentioned the 100 jobs lost at Piper's Margate - hardly regeneration. And why weren't TDC supporting a local firm rather than dodgy crud like Infratil and TEF? 100 jobs was far more than any of the speculative drivel we've had from Infratil etc. Or was it 20M?

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    16. And the new steps on the seafront John, the place is looking far far better than a few years back! : )

      I refuse to even acknowledge anonymous comments from now on.

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    17. Unfortunately Peter, lots of people are leaving Margate and few moving there and little in terms of improvement (unless you want to enlighten us). Because it's a shothole. Even Portas has been confirmed as a farce now.

      Soon you may be able to wander around naked in the deserted town centre as the last tourist attraction. TDC would no doubt claim credit.

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    18. Anon 7:54 pm,

      You promised the Magistrate that you would stop walking around naked.

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    19. I certainly did not 8pm nor did Peter, now off to bed, you're too childish to be up late talking to adults!

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    20. Anon 8:06pm,

      You are correct and I apologise. It was someone else who was ordered not to walk around naked. You were the one who promised to stop pinching ladies underwear from clothes lines.

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    21. The Piper collapse is very bad: 100 jobs lost and no statement or action from TDC. Just pie in the sky vanity projects like Chinagate.

      Clive's in charge of economic growth what is he doing? Even Pfizer is still only 2,000 jobs - with 4,000 lost after 2 or 3 years.

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    22. I am sure Simon Moores tweeted last week about a DDOS attack one one of his sites, do you think these incidents could be connected at all? Seems a bit strange that 2 councillors have been subject to hacking attacks in the same week?

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    23. No they're not connected. The person who did this to Driver actually likes Moores (some say he IS Moores!).

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  10. This blog was far better when you stopped anonymous commentators for a few days Michael, despite far fewer comments (quality over quantity!). Cue lots of comments telling me otherwise - anonymously of course...

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    1. Peter @ 1:01 pm,

      Here, here! I could not agree more.

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    2. Only because you could flannel on without being pulled up on your bonkers nonsense about Manston pollution. Credit though for mainly sticking to one post a day now.

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    3. Anon Sep 03 @ 7:50 pm,

      You lie on your belly, curled up in the gutter, hissing and poised to strike at all who pass by.

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    4. If you say so John.

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  11. "This blog was far better when you stopped anonymous commentators.."

    Oh no it wasn't!

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  12. Strange press release from TDC confirming ownership of Dreamland from today yet it's in court for an appeal on the 26th? So they don't own it yet? Is that useless TDC solicitor involved again, otherwise that will be another year wasted?

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  13. There are several large vehicles parked in the port with LETS SORT IT OUT in large letters emblazoned on the side. Is this a tongue in cheek message or a freudian slip regarding the debacle at TDC regarding a large sum of money given to foriegn shipping companies without asking for any security in return.
    The other side of this coin is that during the time that monies from harbour dues was freely given away,TDC were employing large numbers of bailiffs to recover monies owing from unpaid parking fines etc.{more than any other council in the south east}

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    1. Ah Bill and when in the sorry saga would you have bankrupted the ferry company by either publicising their financial position or calling in the administrators?

      When they were there Port Ramsgate was running at about one tenth capacity and no takers for the other nine tenths.

      This means that the council lost port fees and wages for about three council workers for the period they decided to wait and see if the ferry company could get finance.

      So the council subsided the Ramsgate economy for a bit, I know this as ferry staff and ferry users used my shop.

      They took a gamble where they had a small chance of the thing coming right and the council receiving a few million that they wouldn’t have got anyway, the stake being a marginal subsidy to Ramsgate.

      I of course I live here and so am not complaining, which begs the question, where do you live?

      My take here is that the council has to be able to take risks, although I would prefer them to be good risks like this one that benefited the town where I live, whether the council won the money or not.

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    2. Well said, Michael, and a very fair summary of events. Would not be much point in electing councillors to run the place if they then had to refer every decision they want to take to the electorate for approval first.

      Some folk really do not seem to grasp the economic climate we have been living in and, like Pleasurama, many developers plans went on hold or, in the extreme cases, companies went bust. One only has to look elsewhere in Thanet like the Sea Bathing Hospital or the old Norfolk Hotel site in Cliftonville. In both these cases advertising boards heralding units to shortly be available were replaced with immobile cranes of scruffy hoardings respectively as developers struggled to stay afloat. What about Margate FC's grand plans for a new stadium and adjacent hotel.

      I am not on TDC and must say I do not envy those who are the several problems they have had to contend with over these leans years, but, as Michael says, anything that keeps jobs going for a bit and still brings in some income has to be a gamble worth taking.

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    3. William there is a lot of evidence some of which has recently been posted that intimates no development was ever envisaged at Pleasurama. At the Task & Finish group some of the evidence seen was so laughable that they believed at some stage the file would have to be passed to the police.

      There is also evidence that the same people took Peterborough for £8M and again no building or development was ever made.

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    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    5. Sorry about that Mr James, but my previous comment was full of spelling errors so here we go again.

      I would not claim any in depth knowledge on the Pleasurama development, being a Broadstairs Town Councillor, and the saga well pre-dates my time, being elected in May 2011. I was simply making the point that it is not the only development to hit the buffers.

      Your comment, however, that some of the evidence produced was laughable and was cause to believe that the file should be passed to the police, rather smacks of a hint at criminality without actually going the whole hog and saying so. If the evidence on which decision were taking was so bad, why not call in the police or might that expose the statement as groundless?

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    6. William that is not my choice but the team of TDC councillors that viewed the evidence for themselves. All I did was attend the meeting the other night and report what was aired at the meeting.
      I have been told by a TDC Councillor some time ago that the police would like to see a more recent (than 2009) smoking gun as resources have to be managed.
      All I will say on the matter is several people do not think the financial climate has nothing to do with why nowt has been built.

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    7. William I guess Pleasurama is a special case as it is the largest of the council owned high profile derelict properties in Ramsgate.

      As you live in Broadstairs and are of the Conservative persuasion I will put it to you like this.

      Just suppose that the majority of the political figures in Broadstairs were Conservative and the area behind the main sands, the pavillion, the main public buildings, Crampton Tower, and so on were owned by the district council.

      Then suppose you experienced a period of eight years where the Labour group had a good working majority in the district council and at the end of his period the whole lot were derelict.

      You would I suspect be interested in what had happened, as we are in Ramsgate.

      Well with Pleasurama, granted the Labour group back in 2002 were taken in by the developer, the prospectus says the development was a Whitbread project supported by the development arm of a Swiss bank.

      Subsequently Whitbread and the Swiss bank have said this was not the case, in writing and published in the public domain.

      Well after seven years of all this the development agreement ran out, the officers at the council recommended that the then Conservative cabinet terminate the agreement, but they decided not to do this.

      The result of this decision had a bad economic effect on Ramsgate and put the council in a position where they will face a costly legal battle to get out of it.

      Well last week the documentation that this unfortunate decision was based on came into the public domain. Click here read it and tell me, do you think Big Ears would have lent you his bicycle based on this documentation.

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    8. Michael, I do take your point, but, for the record, I am far less of a Conservative than you might imagine. Seems to me, really as an interested bystander, that the initial failing was to have no enforceable time/performance deadlines in the agreement with the developer. Also, whilst it has gone from Labour to Conservative and back to Labour, with Allan Poole only quite recently defending the council's stance, I am never happy with on line hints at criminality without substantially more back up than I have seen.

      Agree the "evidence" that influenced the council in 2009 is not impressive, but, by the same token, there is nothing there to justify a police investigation.

      As for the derelict council property, perhaps you should have taken a look at Pierremont Hall a few month backs, before we managed to persuade TDC to renovate it, when it was in a terrible state for the town's most important building. I think shortage of funds has played a major part in TDC failing to upkeep buildings to a better standard.

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    9. William what was said in a public meeting was overhead by all who attended are you saying public meetings should be censored to avoid anything that might be controversial. Nobody misunderstood what was said but the feeling was as the events occurred a few years ago everyone should move on to find a solution to the current impasse. It doesn't change what happened nor does in absolve those that acted against Officer advice given on the back of documents presented by the developer which, at least in the officer's eyes didn't pass muster.

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    10. Sadly, once again James intimates via innuendo that parties are guilty of wrong doing, yet produces not a shred of evidence to back up his fairy story, much as he did with his recent claims re a Kent building firm's good standing.

      It's fortunate for James that posting bullshit to a public forum isn't a crime, as he would undoubtedly now be serving 20+ years.

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    11. John I guess you read the documents for the 2009 meeting, so what do you reckon? I assume you understand that my objections to the development from day one have been related to more practical engineering issues, passing plans for a development that stood three metres above the cliff top, not doing a proper survey of the cliff, so as to have an accurate distance the development needs to be away from the cliff to allow reasonable and economic maintenance, not using a flood risk assessment to ascertain the right base line and so on. In short I smelt a rat from the beginning, which made me concerned that the developer wasn’t intending to develop in the usual sense that a proper developer does. Every development has site constrains, an example being Salisbury cathedral, built on marshland so the architect built it on wooden floats, if he hadn’t it would have sunk, and as an engineer seeing what looked to be a cathedral that would sink. I did as were wonder why no floats. This Mickey Mouse documentation though is a bit beyond my ken though, so I would apriciate your opinion.

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    12. Mr James, to each his own. I do not like hints of criminality or all these calls for arrests to be made that abound on the blogs because, unfortunately, mud has a nasty habit of sticking. If there is a case to answer it should be heard, otherwise it amounts to just rumour mongering. I also do not accept the suggestion that because something is said in a public meeting that then makes it OK to broadcast it far and wide. Surely it depends who said it and in what context.

      On another occasion if the statements of a certain councillor are to be accepted as gospel, as you seem to be doing, everyone else present was a homophobe. Hardly likely so perhaps you would be well advised to take your own advice and move on rather than seeking to perpetuate the allegation of criminality.

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    13. Michael do you expect a coherent response from some who rants on Geoff's blog with such vitriol http://geoffreybarnesblog.wordpress.com/2013/08/31/hamiltons-false-accusations-removed-from-facebook/

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    14. William I guess it is always a bit tricky for me on the party political front as I am a floating voter, this tends at district level where the material is not so good to make one everyone’s enemy. And at MP level where both candidates are excellent and even hold a high opinion of each other, well if not everyone’s friend, at least, one can operate in an atmosphere of courtesy and respect.

      I don’t really think our district Conservatives are completely what it says on the tin, with some members lacking a little in conviction what they make up in convenience.

      I suppose I would have more confidence in a district Conservative future for Ramsgate if we had senior TDC Conservative member who had done his porridge for buying up property here rather than in Margate.

      With the Pleasurama documents, I see this as legal matter, but not necessarily a police matter. With the bad drafting of the agreement and I guess you would concede the equally bad drafting of the 2009 variation, which is where the current time/performance issues lie, I am concerned that it isn’t the same legal “experts” that drafted the dreadful thing who are now used to try and extricate us from it.

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    15. William what has this to do with anything I have said "On another occasion if the statements of a certain councillor are to be accepted as gospel, as you seem to be doing, everyone else present was a homophobe. Hardly likely so perhaps you would be well advised to take your own advice and move on rather than seeking to perpetuate the allegation of criminality"? I spoke about the T&F meeting. As the local press hadn't bothered to attend there was no report in the local paper. Maybe you should speak with someone else that attended that meeting.
      Michael has posted the letters given to the Council in 2008 and 2009 if you take the time to examine them as Michael and I have done then come back and reply. In particular the letter from SBP Banque in September 2008. 3 people have said the banks don't have a triple star rating and at that date SBP was really Banque Postil because of a takeover in 2007.

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    16. William to clarify your other point "or all these calls for arrests to be made that abound on the blogs" To put the record straight I have never called for arrests please do not tar me with the same brush. All I want is for the facts to be investigated properly not swept under the carpet.

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    17. Michael, I am more inclined to treat people as just that rather than by the rosette they wear and, as I said, I am not a dyed in the wool Tory myself either. Indeed, I would say that I used to think I was a Conservative, but if David Cameron is than clearly I cannot be. On the other hand, I become increasingly convinced that Labour opted for the wrong Milliband.

      I simply seek to serve the people in my ward to the best of my ability and respond to the issues they raise which are, in the main, everyday things like refuge collection, noise, vandalism, anti-social behaviour and town events. Hardly party political stuff.

      On the issue of TDC councillors, there are some very good ones, some who give a lot of time to the job and others who bring certain expertise. There are also some who probably do not fit the role, but that is for their respective ward electorates to decide. Unfortunately the rosette system can perpetuate incompetents in office.

      Delete
    18. Mr James I am all for investigating facts properly, but, until they are, everything is pure conjecture. If you bothered to read what other people wrote you will see that I have already read and commented on the documents. Not impressed but there is nothing in them to imply any criminal behaviour. That is why the police are probably not to excited about it as things stand.

      On the issue of repeating what is heard at meetings, all I would say is if one person makes a slanderous statement then it is no less slanderous for someone else to repeat it. The suggestion of moving on was yours not mine though it is probably the best course. Would also pick up on your comment about arrests. This blog is not confined to you and I and is a broader debating base. One contributor is always going on about arrests including naming councillors and officers and it was to that I was referring.

      Delete
    19. William you start your posts to Michael and address him as Michael however you start your posts to me as Mr. James would you care to explain why? I have stated on here and elsewhere that everything that has been looked at is available for anyone, including yourself, to view over a coffee somewhere. Further I firmly believe that there needs to be a proper investigate to ensure mistakes are not repeated as no one wants this sorry saga to be repeated again.

      Delete
    20. Mr James I was simply being courteous for I do not know you and, as far as I am aware, we have never met. Michael, on the other hand, I have known for years, exchanged emails and visited his shop on a number of occasions. Perhaps you are falling into the trap of trying to read too much into things.

      As for your offer of seeing the 'evidence' as it were, I have colleagues on the Broadstairs council who are also TDC councillors and with whom I can discuss these issues. Whether an investigation would help matters now is questionable if the police are not going to get involved. Perhaps everyone would be better served by TDC concentrating their efforts on seeking a resolution of the problem rather than raking over old coals.

      Delete
    21. Rather than brushing this under the carpet Cllr Epps let's raise it and discuss it openly. It's good you're willing to discuss matters with your TDC colleagues on BTC - how about the 0% salaries fraud you previously said was impossible to raise with TDC?

      Delete
    22. No trap William, my wife had wondered as the rest of the posts had been on 1st name terms and she couldn't understand why you had used Mr.
      I did say one TDC councillor had asked the police some little while ago to investigate but without "current" evidence nothing was going to happen. I didn't say any of the T&F councillors were going to call in the police.
      My take on the whole matter is that TDC need to identify where they got it so wrong but only to ensure the same mistakes couldn't happen again. I'm sure no right minded person would want another 10 years with the site like it is today

      Delete
    23. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    24. Eppsy's on Michael's press release coming out with some toe the party line drivel on fracking. He is actually quite dangerous in his stupidity, much like Farage. Kent needs to be a frack-free zone with the existing permits cancelled as will happen in Sussex.

      Worrying that 75% of Kent's water comes from aquifers - and we seem to have only silence on the Manston aquifer pollution.

      Quite special really to build an airport on the drinking water - and then keep polluting it. Shouldn't it have been closed by now as a health hazard?

      Delete
    25. Anon 11:34, or should that be Anonsey in your lower deck parlance, if it is any help I do not think much of you either.

      Delete
    26. 11.23 your potentially libellous comment has been deleted.

      If you are a victim of internet bullying here, I now keep a record of these comments should you with to take action.

      Delete
    27. Good idea, Michael, although the usual suspects are so simple minded they could probably plead diminished responsibility if matters went to court!

      Delete
    28. What would would be your excuse Cllr Epps? A silly old fool out of his depth on the TDC corruption? You don't even seem sure you're a Tory now.

      Delete
    29. Eppsy has ducked the point about the 0% fruad and asking his TDC colleagues. He's a wriggler.

      Delete
    30. Tell you what, 4:17, why not join me on Thanet Press Releases where we can discuss fracking to your heart's content?

      Delete
    31. You're wriggling Eppsy. The points were made by you about TDC and BTC and 0% fraud answer them here.

      Your fracking points were made there and now you've raised them here - and they aren't really worth much comment other than you know nothing of fracking beyond what you've read in the Daily Mail, and it's the party line you're toeing although you're not even sure you're a Tory now.

      You seem to have no point other than wriggling whenever questions are put to you.

      Answer the point on BTC and your TDC colleagues and 0% fraud here if you can.

      Delete
    32. 0% this really is spam you know, click here for the answer to the 0% issue, not the crime you would have us believe it would seem but a pay review conducted by an independent body used by many other councils.

      Delete
    33. Michael you're answering for Cllr Epps again. The quote you cite from Cllr Moores has been disregarded previously as it doesn't detail the simple matter of Samuel and White's before and after salary payments.

      If they're the same (before and after the pay review chaired by Cllr Moores) then it is a 0% salary rise as Moores claimed. If they're not what would it be?

      You seem keen to limit the debate on corruption by terming it spam: this 0% fraud would be at least £15k blatantly fiddled as it certainly seems to be.

      Both Cllr Epps and Moores can speak for themselves and/or clear this matter up easily with the payslips. Why not ask for those rather than pasting old rather nonsensical blog posts?

      Delete
    34. I have told you before, 6:44, if you want to raise off thread issues concerning historic TDC matters approach your own District Councillor. If that is too difficult for you, send me an email stating your query and in which ward you live and I will forward it on. I am not wriggling but simply will not discuss issues that do not concern me or predate my term of office with an anonymous person on a blogsite.

      Delete
    35. You're wriggling Eppsy. You said you couldn't raise BTC matters with TDC. Now you say you can. You were telling porkies weren't you?

      This is a blog forum and the issue is the 0% salary corruption - why will you not raise this ongoing issue (I'm sure you'd agree the money should be paid back and the Police called in if there has been fiddling) with your TDC colleagues on BTC?

      Brushing it under the carpet doesn't work anymore Cllr Epps. Were the payrises 0% or more?

      Copy and paste this to your BTC/TDC colleagues if you like. Copies of the payslips would be perfect. Maybe Macgonigal will refuse to provide them to you?

      You raised fracking off-thread here. You're wriggling again. Do you want to discuss that? The points I've read that you've made are simply nonsense or party toeing the line.

      Delete
    36. You already have my answer, Anon, and I only raised fracking here because you referred to my comment on the subject on Thanet Press Releases earlier on this site. You want to discuss fracking go over there, but, wait, silly me, on that site you would have to come out from behind your cloak of anonymity and you simply don't have the guts for that.

      Delete
    37. You're wriggling Eppsy. You can raise the 0% fraud with TDC councillors you say. But you said before you couldn't?

      I'll briefly discuss your silly fracking views here if you wish. You're simply being awkward and making it difficult for the public to engage with you with emails and other websites and procedural this and that of your own random making.

      You're a wriggler and a fool sir and certainly a waste of what little tax we pay you.

      Delete
    38. If I am a wriggler you, Sir, are a craven coward who will not disclose his identity. As such you have no right to demand answers of anyone.

      Delete
    39. You are a wriggler Eppsy and you're confused over Anon comments on the internet which are perfectly normal and relevant - except if very insulting. I could work at TDC for example and you could seek to have me sacked.

      You are a councillor on a Thanet blog and have been alerted to 0% fraud at TDC.

      You said you couldn't raise it at BTC - to raised eyebrows all round. Now, above, you're saying you can raise lots of issues at BTC with TDC colleagues. Which is it?

      We are agreed you are a wriggler. Are you a liar and are you attempting to cover over the 0% corruption? You're not paid from tax to do either are you?

      Delete
    40. You are a wriggler Eppsy and you're confused over Anon comments on the internet which are perfectly normal and relevant - except if very insulting. I could work at TDC for example and you could seek to have me sacked.

      You are a councillor on a Thanet blog and have been alerted to 0% fraud at TDC.

      You said you couldn't raise it at BTC - to raised eyebrows all round. Now, above, you're saying you can raise lots of issues at BTC with TDC colleagues. Which is it?

      We are agreed you are a wriggler. Are you a liar and are you attempting to cover over the 0% corruption? You're not paid from tax to do either are you?

      Delete
    41. If I am confused it is only from reading all your drivel, Anon. Of course the truth is you really do not want answers do you, because you get your kicks from asking fool questions that no one will respond to and then accusing them of evasion.

      Delete
    42. Micahel, I am, more than aware of the reams of irrelevant scarmongering that has gone on re pleasurama, from collapsing cliffs demolishing buildings, and killing many, to crane laden waves crashing into the new building, and smashing it to destruction, with the loss of 1000's of lives, inspite of nothing like that EVER having happened EVER, despite there being buildings there for nearly 200 years!

      Sadly the scare mongering has been joined by wanton and blatant bullshit, which proves as little as worrying about a structure being washed away, that, just like James's bullshit, has 0 evidence to support such a supposition.

      Delete
    43. John it was a simple question; " I guess you read the documents for the 2009 meeting, so what do you reckon?"

      Delete
    44. Michael I doubt you will get a coherent answer. Having read his standard of rhetoric on other blogs I have come to the conclusion the only opinion that matters to Hamilton is his own. He cannot read, nor spell and his command of English is poor in the extreme. For instance his insistence that towing is the right spelling in "toeing the line" on Barnes blog was hilarious. I suspect his schooling was in a Borstal somewhere. He is nothing but a bully and his continuous attacks on Barry and Ian does nothing but prove they are right and he is wrong.

      Delete
    45. Michael, you asked for my opinon on your whole comment, "so I would apriciate your opinion".

      I commented on your entire post as you asked me to.

      Have I read all the documents that have appeared online, and having reading them, and trawled through James's bullshit and innuendo, I can find no evidence of wrong doing from SFP, Keegan or anyone else. Even James admits he had no proof of any illegal activity!

      I can find no evidence of large loss of life from buildings being swept away in the nearly 200 years of there being buildings on the pleasurama site, I can find no evidence of large loss of life from cliff collapses or indeed anyone being hit by cranes having been parked on the beach, becoming water bourne flotsome/jetsome (not sure which a crane would be).

      Delete
    46. John what I actually said was: "John I guess you read the documents for the 2009 meeting, so what do you reckon?" No worries if you don't know what to say about the documents though, it was just that you seem to be the only commentator with any sort of id that isn't totally against all aspects of the project and I thought that since the documents are now in the public domain you would feel free to give your opinion of them.

      Delete
    47. I understand what you wrote Michael.

      I addressed the objections you listed as, I have in the past, as as you know, I believe, and have put forward the facts to support the fact that your objections really have little/no foundation.

      As for the documents recently put forward, I've read what's been posted, they really change nothing, They prove no wrong doing against anyone, inspite of James's innuendo's, they don't make your objections re FRA, building standards etc etc etc anymore substantial, they really add little, if anything to the debate.

      I realise that you want to attach a whole narrative to the documents, James's innuendo and fairy stories, and a developers failure to work in a way YOU find acceptable, but they really really don't support that narrative, neither do they do anything to make James's innuendo any more substantial than the inaccurate guesswork it clearly is.

      Delete
  14. I think it would have been better if Keegan had applied for a Wonga loan to build Pleasurama it might have been built by now

    ReplyDelete
  15. Michael I am quite surprised at your laissez faire attitude to the incompetence of TDC not only to the money that was spent but also the downright deceit. The sum of £3.3 million that is bandied about does not include the running costs of the port when Trans Europa were not paying any harbour dues, which when you take into account the dredging etc probably increases the loss to over £6 million. essentially the bonus that TDC earned from the windfarm was all given to 3 or 4 Cypriot companies, and TDC didn't even have the commercial nous to get the debt registered against the only asset the companies had the ships. The Gardenia is up for sale even the deckhand has a debt registered against the vessel, does TDC, NO what a surprise. If everything was open and above board it would have been very disappointing that TEF had gone into administration and we as local tax payers had taken a hit, but at least it would have been registered on the accounts and we would have known about. Rather than TDC senior management being caught with their trousers down when P & O made a rational and commercial decision.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for that Bill, I will endeavour to check out what you say and come back to you, but still the key question, when would you have sunk the ferry company?

      Delete
    2. Good point, Michael, but I am afraid the world is full of experts when they themselves do not have to take the decision. Can you imagine the outcry there would have been if TDC had pushed TEF into administration at the first non payment of berthing fees. I can think of at least one councillor who would have been shouting from the rooftops about loss of livelihoods and commercial suicide.

      Delete
    3. For me William the ferry issue is one of where the direction is, I think that priority should go to temporary use for the port site next year, fun fair, water leisure…

      The recrimination could take us. Where? Senior officer resignation at great cost to the council taxpayer and no likely better replacement. Senior councillor resignation, but once again where are the better replacements in either party?

      Any hope of getting the money we never had seems remote, whether the port should have been allowed to silt up casing the win farmers to plough another field is a bit of a moot point too.

      Delete
    4. You and Cllr Epps seem determined to do nothing Michael. I can understand Cllr Epps covering over this party and colleagues failure and corruption, but you're paying for it and seemingly happy to continue doing so.

      Who says we can't have better or at least cheaper/fewer civil servants and councillors? Why would resignations/firings cost the taxpayer? Councillors have chosen the ludicrous payoffs for supposed silence but they're certainly not obligatory.

      Delete
    5. Several senior council officials have been jailed for far less than Pleasurama etc eg Caerphilly Council, Lord xyz of Essex Council.

      Delete
    6. Anon 10.16 this, and for me, comes down to objectives, my primary objective being improving our lot locally and not attempting to change the system of UK government.

      Yes I would like to see the council owned sites in Ramsgate used to their full potential. No I don’t wish to present this area as being particularly worse then most of the rest of the UK, which it isn’t.

      I guess I have a considerable stake in Ramsgate, I have a business here, I live here, my younger children go to an excellent school here.

      I am not interested in some form of retribution on the council, although I think that with the series of ongoing problems we may see a unitary authority, Dover, Canterbury and Thanet and that may or may not improve our lot.

      I have, as a taxpayer, just contributed to the incarceration of a previous council leader, which probably cost a four figure sum, when perhaps a fine used in the local community would have been better all round.

      Delete
    7. There's a lot you say here Michael that is simply untrue or at best ineffective.

      The ineffective part is on your improving the locality through doing nothing. Clearly justifying the existing TDC management as you now increasingly seem to do is hardly likely to lead to reform.

      The untrue part is that Thanet is not worse than the rest of the UK. It certainly is just look at the statistics again you seem to be deluding yourself.

      Nobody's spoken of retribution that's a fanciful term of your own, whathas been discussed is consequences for failure ie sackings, jail etc etc.

      Agree on your point with Sandy but that's down to the judge not you - and may serve the purpose of dissuading other corrupt councillors and civil servants eg Pleasurama has now been dropped etc.

      Why can we not have better/fewer/cheaper councillors etc than sticking with the dross we have? You're arguing only for the status quo and don't even seem sure it's disastrous.

      Delete
    8. I didn't understand Michael's point about changing the system of government in UK. Nor why his children should be satisfied with polluted water or corruption. Those are already illegal but simply ignored/covered up in Thanet.

      Delete
    9. Anon you seem to want better councillors, this would suggest that you are unhappy with the way we select them now i.e. by democratic election, I guess if you want a different means of selection you either need to move to a different country, or attempt to change this county’s method of government from democracy.

      Perhaps you would prefer a dictatorship, or have you got some other idea?

      On the business of maintaining that pollution is worse here than the rest of the civilised world, well is it? I don’t believe it is, obviously in a civilised society with a high population density pollution is inevitable, here like elsewhere aquifer pollution is a problem, but this doesn’t mean the drinking water is poisoned.

      So this brings me to the point, which is why would you want to dumb down this area, damage the local economy by suggesting it is dangerously polluted

      Delete
    10. I think you're scaling things up to ridiculousness Michael. Lots of councils have better councillors/civil servants without changing the government etc.

      You're simply saying you're happy with the ones now and there are no problems.

      I'm saying the exact opposite as are many people even you occasionally. the Gazette for example recorded 4x the EU safe levels of air pollution at Manston - are you calling them liars? if they're not then Infratil and TDC must be. Like you they say there is no pollution.

      In terms of the pollution of course it's worse the figures are detailed y the Environment Agency. You've recognised this yourself then seem to scurry away from the problem. You've ignored the airport on the aquifer which seems spectacualrly foolish to your self if not your children. I do know the drinking water is abstracted from elsewhere because of the pollution.

      You haven't explained how the aquifer will be cleaned up - other than simply accepting the pollution as it is and maybe it will change someday or not.

      And in terms of destroying the economy I think that's largely been done by TDC hasn't it? I'm not pinning my hopes on your bookshop reinvigorating the economy. Again you seem to doubt the statistics: worst High St, 5th worst seaside town etc.

      Which brings us back to why you maintain there are no problems with TDC and everything is wonderful. That's simply not true. Quite the opposite.

      Delete
    11. Who's in charge of the airport now? Clive? A new airport committee? Where are the last set of minutes from KIACC? The public meeting should be due in November. I doubt KLM will last that long, the passenger operators usually stop around now from lack of demand. 30% full KLM flights if that?

      Delete
    12. HSE close down Thor processes at Margate late 80s. FOI to Environment Agency exposes the 30 years of Sericol massively polluting the aquifer. The EA state in their response to FOI that the Sericol polllution will remain a problem for the foreseeable future.

      Thor toxic waste

      Thor Margate Fire after reports of "Explosion" 2007

      When you think talking an area up, whilst dodging the public health issues, you have to irrationally abandon all respect for the precautionary principle.

      That old Micawber spirit as the area exhibits the highest rates of chemical coshing kids in UK. High rates of ectopic pregnancy. And what appears to be clusters of high rates of young aneurism death and stroke around direct water abstraction sites.

      Why didn't you support Rick when he asked for an area epidemiological study by Kent Health Protection Agency ? What was your position that the Thanet patient would get better without a doctor ?

      Delete
    13. Crikey, 30 fire crews for the 2007 explosion! They could have died: the site was closed wasn't it?

      Delete
    14. This chap is in charge of Thor cleanup apparently: howard.davidson@environment-agency.gov.uk

      Write to him and ask for progress, contamination levels etc.

      Can you guess what's happened?

      Delete
    15. Michael, i certainly would have pulled the plug at some time, but i would never have agreed to a complete payment holiday in the first place. ican understand a reduction or discount due to difficult trading conditions but when they have been paying port dues for 12 or 13 years asking for a complete payment holiday should have set major alarm bells ringing. The due diligence checks by the Italian partners would have soon made them have second thoughts, yes we are trading very well and the ships are quite full but pssst don't tell anyone we are not paying any harbour dues!!!!!
      Would you allow someone to come and take a dozen books every day for a year on the strength of an agreement that they would start to pay you when they had an upturn in their buisness or they had an Itlaian or Albanian partner on board.

      Delete
    16. I really have to agree with you Michael and Willam. There are many anon's that seem to utterly miss the point that TDC has lost circa £3.3 BUT that is a lost income, NOT monies given to anyone from the TDC bank account. This is money that would have been lost if TEF was bought to it's knees recently or in 2011, it really makes no difference,

      I agree that a use must be found for the port area short term, until some other kind of shipping can be attracted to it. Perhaps a major animal exporter could be found to use the facility ;)

      Bill, your challenge is utterly ridiculous, simplistic and childish. To make it accurate, you have have to ask Michael if he he had a customer, his ONLY customer who had been paying a substantial amount by using Michaels shop for over 10 years. That single customer then asks Michael for credit terms, as his costs have risen markedly, and if terms are not available, he will go out of buisness.

      Now, does Michael push his ONLY customer out of business, or does he take a calculated risk, that nearly paid off. Now I wonder what decision a good business man would make....

      Delete
    17. So losing £3.3 million in income and spending £3 million to keep that customer is a calculated business risk.
      When that is several times your annual profit it is down right foolhardy.
      A loss of income of £.3 million and the expenditure that was wasted at the port could have given the Thanet residents a great deal of benefit. They should at least have had the choice as to where that money went, and the knowledge that it was going.

      Delete
    18. Spending £3million, the small fraction of that laughable figure you have guessed at that was ACTUALLY spent, is money that would have been spent to service the other operator using the port, but don;t let that stop you believing your fairy tale.

      If you prefer the commercially gullible "for TEF to it's knees in 2010" avenue, fine, but then that would simply mean losing exactly the same £3.3 that has been lost only with MINIMAL savings from only having 1 operator in the port.

      To think that commercial terms can be made public, especially terms such as debt deferral is gullible and naive in the extreme.

      Delete
    19. Who is this other operator you are talking about ? There was only 1 operator who used the port as a class 1 passenger port which required the employment of 20 + security guards 4 or 5 duty operations managers, the chartering of a tug at about £15K per month. wind your neck in and stop being an ostrich. TDC have well and truly taken the tax payers for a ride, and in the process forgot their creditor had a floating asset.
      The end game is the port of Ostend has 3 ships under their control that will be sold and they will get some money back. In the meantime TDC will get a big round £0

      Delete
  16. Cllr Epps. isn't the argument that the debt arrangements for TEF gave rise to a duty to report for monitoring by EU unfair competition monitor. Public subsidy. Did TDC report ? It seems the answer is no and that creates an issue now in the auditing of its accounts.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Secret subsidies/discounts by TDC is in itself a concern and breaches TDC's own rules. What other secret payments have been made without council or the public knowing?

      The TDC reserves are beginning to look like a slush fund for cockups. Money sat in the reserves has been raised by tax but wasted by not being spent. Simply hoarded to cover over failure when tax rebates could be provided.

      Delete
    2. Well grant aid to one Thanet manufacturer is an issue being raised currently with a member of House of Lords as a folly history from which lessons should be learned nationally.

      Delete
    3. Grant aid has its uses. I'm sure in Thanet though much of it goes on bungs or extra bureaucracy.

      Ferrygate is just flagrantly abandoning any idea of democratic scrutiny: Clive and Macgonigal deciding what they will and won't do and everyone else can find out later by accident.

      Delete
    4. The Goldenballs email from Cardy on Pleasurama to Clive/Mcgonagil is interesting. Although it doesn't state the date of it: last month? Was it Clive? I thought Alan Poole was the front man on it. Now Clive's giving it a go?

      Delete
    5. Michael's raised it with Cardy via his press release website. Probably worthwhile asking them to confirm the site can be closed and turfed form now rather than waiting another 6 months of TDC farting around?

      Delete
  17. The issue in grant aid in report to a QC Lord is about extending the principle of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 to the Terrorism Acts. So that never again do we have a situation in which a manufacturer who is under crime complaint, for supplying sub standard equipment to installations essential to the defence of the realm, is concurrently grant aided by public funds. First the public interest must be fully met to ensure all necessary prosecutions, declarations and remedies have been made.

    From a commercial perspective the manufacturer had publicly admitted to a significant loss of market share for 5 years. IE This was a failing business. But reports to MOD ten years before had already detailed the intelligence being used by one of the manufacturer's rivals who had made marketing plans predicting their rival's loss of market share due to unreliability issues and break down of test and quality control.

    So grant aid used to prop up a failing business so that jobs, being done miserably poorly, could be sustained. Grant aid to the disadvantage of public interest. As Iris Jo0hnston might say "Can we keep jobs, are there any jobs for local people". How about (Lesson too re Pleasurama and TEF) whether the activity is commercially viable and leading edge quality ?

    We are talking 7 million quid. This appears to have involved the economic regeneration team of TDC when Cllr Steve Ladyman was about. So one would be interested if that had something to do with his later refusal to take forward Jonathan Aitken's defence of the realm casework with regard to that manufacturer. Perhaps Steve will in due course be invited to a chat over coffee with a nice chap from Whitehall ?

    So Michael's idea, that the key to regeneration is to ignore the uncomfortable history, to fail to learn lessons and to talk the area up, is a nonsense in the real world. Certainly a large Thanet workforce was subject, en masse, of security flag warnings to MOD about 1994. Rival companies were aware of the problems. So it would be unlikely if the Thanet company failed that another such manufacturer would touch Thanet with a bargepole.

    At the time Thanet had grant aid there was a manufacturer (1500 jobs) looking but I think you may assume an MOD voice said not if you want to sell to us .......

    Talk it up as much as you like you are just spitting in the wind.

    To say a little more. In MOD circles it is estimated that around 250 Thanet people outside of TDC (IF you add them in about 350) have knowledge that should have been reported by law but they are treacherously and unlawfully electing silence. Kent Police have long since said they are reluctant to "Compel evidence". So there you go. Write to Ann Barnes Police Commissioner and ask her to prioritize the laws of compulsory reporting. And the people who have truly backstabbed Thanet and the Nation could look forward to a knock on the door. That would include directors at two major manufacturers in the area.

    Or carry on whinging.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you believe any of that horse manure that Anon 10:33 wrote then you must be even sillier than that old fool. Think about it, just how would he know what goes on in MOD circles? He has been retired for years and before that he ran a pub where he used to lay whole rugby teams horizontal.

      By the way, how exactly do you enforce compulsory reporting? I know something that nobody else does but I am keeping silent about it. Knock, knock, "Evening, Sir, we have good reason to believe you know something that nobody else does." "That's right, constable, I had a jippy tummy yesterday, but I never told anyone." "Well in that case, Sir, you better accompany me to the station." "Why, are you going somewhere?"

      Delete
    2. In the sub standard equipment to installations essential to the defence of the realm, the pounding of the cylinders increased: ta-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa.

      "You're tensed up again," said Mrs. Mitty. "It's one of your days. I wish you'd let Dr. Renshaw look you over.

      Delete
    3. Was that Walter's missus, 7:49?

      Delete

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