tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post8406009277400198186..comments2024-03-13T10:32:22.656+00:00Comments on thanetonline: Thanet and the politics of the banana skin. A message for Councillor Chris Wells, said with flowers.Michael Childhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09499435016469020417noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-31099436802409631232012-04-30T17:26:00.312+01:002012-04-30T17:26:00.312+01:00Chris over the maritime museum events, I am just c...Chris over the maritime museum events, I am just checking that I haven’t made some sort of mistake here, the car park has 24 spaces and an average parking cost of about £1 per hour so if it was half full 24 7 that would be about £600 per weekend, then say about £100 for parking attendants and other costs we are looking at about £3,600 in exchange for which we get 6 events per year, with presumably the people attending the events paying to park in the other car parks in the town.<br /><br />These are events that wouldn’t need funding by the council, but presumably would help the economy of the town considerably.<br /><br />The alternatives are that the council fund the museum or the museum closes I believe.<br /><br />You seem to be saying that you are against Ramsgate having these events, sorry I seem to have missed something here I think, do you mind expanding on what you have said about the museum a bit?Michael Childhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499435016469020417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-12392824333445128552012-04-30T12:58:16.862+01:002012-04-30T12:58:16.862+01:00The nature of councils like KCC with their day tim...The nature of councils like KCC with their day time meetings exclude much of the working population from holding office. Yes, such councils are stuffed full of retired and those with their own businesses. And its not just labour councillors in London Boroughs that get soft jobs in neighboring boroughs. Even at KCC councillors have worked for the Audit Commission and other government quangos.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-2996858376434086522012-04-30T10:52:15.752+01:002012-04-30T10:52:15.752+01:00Chris on the whole I am not very keen on the recri...Chris on the whole I am not very keen on the recrimination game as it isn’t particularly helpful and productive, in this case you did answer my question about why you were happy to ahead with the development three years ago, which was because of the involvement of Cardy’s. <br /><br />This makes sense to me and at the time included the offer of a considerable amount of local employment, in retrospect and I know it always easy to wise after the event this didn’t happen.<br /><br />The first leases for the site were issued in October 2006, see http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/pda and I can’t see how the asset disposal process, if there was one, could have occurred all that much before that time, there may have been some asset disposal process for the previous scheme, which was a Whitbread scheme part financed by SFP, but that would have been about handing the asset to Whitbreads and not an offshore company. <br /><br />My understanding is that Whitbread pulled out and SFP submitted different plans, during the change of administration from Labour to Conservative. I think it would be difficult to lay the blame, even if I wanted to, which I don’t. <br /><br />My calculations on the deposit situation are drawn from the Royal Sands website, which clearly shows which apartments are reserved and which are available, what amount of deposit is to be paid at which stage.<br /><br />I guess you have read the heads of terms and have seen that they say, the leases are to be surrendered and the development agreement be revoked prior to the completion of a new development agreement and freehold land transfer.<br /><br />What I am getting at here is that if the process isn’t legal then it’s a potential banana skin.<br /><br />With the mortgage problem, I have asked several firms and the answer so far is no, my worry at the moment is that this sort of critical and sceptical approach should be what an effective shadow cabinet does. Looking out for this sort of potential banana skin that is, not slinging mud about who made which wrong decision ten years ago, when the site wasn’t designated as a high risk flood zone and so no one would have needed a flood risk assessment to get a mortgage.Michael Childhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499435016469020417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-52724195163950774412012-04-30T09:22:55.603+01:002012-04-30T09:22:55.603+01:00Anon of 1250 am. There is a difference between be...Anon of 1250 am. There is a difference between being short of time and not making replies to blogs a priority. Your ultimate conclusion is to only have retired and/or local government officers as councillors, as hapopens in London boroughs where mainly labour members have over the years often been only notionally employed in nearby boroughs. If you think that would be better you are enttitled to your opinion. Most would, I believe, disagree.Chris Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04022576946890382047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-66556898737466597532012-04-30T09:18:20.196+01:002012-04-30T09:18:20.196+01:00Ah Michael
More contortions to hide your bias I s...Ah Michael<br /><br />More contortions to hide your bias I see. Your original questions on Pleasurama related to the past, yet when you are facing evidence that your favoured group may have some responsibility, you find going over past recrimination is unhelpful!!<br /><br />In answer to your (simplified) questions.<br /><br />As transfer of the freehold was always, as I understand it, part of the process you would have to return to the original decision, under Labour, opre 2003, and ask what the asset disposal process was then and did they follow it.<br /><br />I do not think your calculations on deposits, funding, and availability of funds are accurate, but as these figures are commercially confidential till agreed otherwise I can say no more.<br /><br />I am not a mortgage expert: ask one.<br /><br />Maritime Museum. You once again make sweeping assumptions about right and wrong whilst dodging the history, and then ask the opposition what they would do if they had power with a problem created by the length of negotiation, which you imply lies solely with the council. The question you miss is the cost to Ramsgate of the I believe six weekends that the legal document allows the car park to be used for events (see the draft leases on TDC website). You link two things which while linked in their impact upon the museum trust are not linked in policy terms. How many other local voluntary groups could use 6 free weekends to run fairs to raise funds? And why should the museum trust be treated so spectacularly differently to others? Should one voluntary trust be allowed to evade the terms others have to live by? If so, why?Chris Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04022576946890382047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-39239771513533135452012-04-30T08:50:54.559+01:002012-04-30T08:50:54.559+01:00Chris, If you are short of time why not give up on...Chris, If you are short of time why not give up one of you councillors jobs? You owe it to the people of Thanet and Kent to have sufficient time to devote to your councillor duties, for which you recieve a minimum of £18,000.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-35365175183049452502012-04-29T20:24:10.262+01:002012-04-29T20:24:10.262+01:00Now onto the Maritime Museum, once again I don’t t...Now onto the Maritime Museum, once again I don’t think that the past problems and recrimination is particularly helpful, in this case the deal has been struck and such funding as relates to the council has been committed.<br /><br />I don’t suppose you Bob or the local Conservative group would benefit as much from ongoing recrimination as they would from ensuring that the museum is successful and self funding.<br /><br />So we come to the main question, simplified. Will you and the Conservative group do what is in your power to overcome the red tape instituted last year, which means any funding event the museum want to hold this summer, wouldn’t be able to happen because of the amount of notice of an event they would have to give the council?Michael Childhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499435016469020417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-19280471821234292502012-04-29T20:03:48.303+01:002012-04-29T20:03:48.303+01:00Chris I will do my best here and answer you in chu...Chris I will do my best here and answer you in chunks as I get time, although it is my day off work my children can be fairly demandin,g so you may not get all of my answer until tomorrow.<br /><br />I had assumed from your response that you expected me to reply to it, I also assumed you would have mobile internet, I guess the problem with technology is that one is inclined to assume that people have the same facilities as one does oneself.<br /><br />You don’t need to scan the local blogs incidentally, just use the link on my sidebar that says “Click here for a quick résumé of the comment and posts on the main Thanet blogs” if you get mobile internet you will need to use the link once you get there, near the bottom of the page, that says “view web version”<br /><br />Sorry you didn’t like the pictures on the blog, I will endeavour to draw and publish a sketch of you, next time I post about you, I can pretty much guarantee you a very high position in google image search, you can check this by searching Bob Bayford or any of the other people I have drawn.<br /><br />So starting with Pleasurama and beginning with the secrecy issue, I concluded that when the local press published part of the content of the pinks, I could reasonably assume the issue to be in the public domain.<br /><br />I don’t think there is much point in recrimination over past decisions and your point that it was Cardy’s investment that won you over is a valid one.<br /><br />I think, in view of the work done since their involvement, surface drain subcontracted by them and foundations and the state they have left the site in which looks like a sudden downing of tools, some observations can be made.<br /><br />As this work completed and the amount they offered to invest would appear to have similar values, they may be, as it were, awaiting events and their continued participation is not necessarily guaranteed.<br /><br />This time instead of there being an intention to go ahead with third party investors in place, the intention is that the sale of the freehold of the land to the developers is used as security for third party investors, that may or may not be found.<br /><br />My reply to you was based on the assumption that you had some understanding of the law and economics.<br /><br />So the questions remain, simplified. Is it legal for the council to sell the freehold without going though the asset disposal process? <br /><br />And. Assuming SFP manage to interest third party funders with the security of the freehold, this only takes us to when the first of the new residents try to get a mortgage, because this is how the next part of the development is to be funded. <br /><br />At the moment the only monies from sales of the apartments is14 reservation deposits of 10% plus £2k representing the sale value of about one and a half apartments and this amount would count towards the deposit buyers would have to put up to obtain a mortgage.<br /><br />So in view of this being a new build on an EA designated high risk flood zone, how would anyone get a mortgage, without there first being a flood risk assessment?Michael Childhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499435016469020417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-80005461325986748832012-04-29T18:18:01.672+01:002012-04-29T18:18:01.672+01:00Tony I will get to replying to Chris in the fullne...Tony I will get to replying to Chris in the fullness of time, but my key point here relates to the situation we have now, where it is the intention of the PST to part finance this with a series of events in Ramsgate.<br /><br />They hold The Preston Steam Rally to help finance their activities at Preston and have both the resources and ability to hold events where the number of people attending is measured in the tens of thousands.<br /><br />I think the sticking point for this year would be the new rules imposed by TDC which were partly responsible for stopping the Broadstairs fireworks event, so my key question here was: <br /><br />“Obviously because of the delays in striking the deal, they wouldn’t be able to comply with the timescale of the new council event licensing scheme, which means that going exactly by the book the council could prevent any events this summer.<br /><br />Is it the Conservatives intention to support the museum and try to find ways that events can be held in Ramsgate this Summer, or is it the Conservatives intention to press for strict implementation of the rule book and prevent any events from occurring until next year?”Michael Childhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499435016469020417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-75382128002029650562012-04-29T17:59:17.009+01:002012-04-29T17:59:17.009+01:00Like most people in Ramsgate I have no idea what t...Like most people in Ramsgate I have no idea what the deal is between TDC and the Steam Museum Trust to keep the maritime museum open. So without being privy to the finer detail it is very difficult to comment.However it is obvious that the reason why the place closed in the first place was because TDC stopped paying a direct grant to the EKMT to keep it open. So I would think that without any direct grant, TDC must have granted the SMT a lot of concessions to help them on their way which I think in some areas may have raised a few eyebrows as to the cost. I am glad up to a point that the museum is open but I am under no illusion that it is going to need a lot of support especially from the people of Ramsgate who wanted it opened in the first place. I do think that within two years the maritime museum will need some form of external funding if the people of Ramsgate do not truly support it,A J Ovendenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07145698477921862643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-13534119424076164172012-04-29T12:12:47.844+01:002012-04-29T12:12:47.844+01:00Chris the problem is the length of comment, making...Chris the problem is the length of comment, making blogger reject it altogether or spam it, if you get more problems email your comment to me and I will include it in the post where there are no restrictions.Michael Childhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499435016469020417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-10633158545867433822012-04-29T11:58:14.983+01:002012-04-29T11:58:14.983+01:00In passing, as a Town Councillor myself, I always ...In passing, as a Town Councillor myself, I always supported the wish of any one else who has not got one to have a Town Council - including Margate. Should I remind you that David Green was opposed during the campaign on the grounds that Folkestone Town Council has seen a rapid upsurge in precept charging to fund itself in previous years? Now as Mayor, of course he has a different view and urges the Ramsgate version to constantly spend more.<br /><br />How easily you swat away parking as an issue - I trust out of ignorance rather than deliberate intent. £40,000 worth of public money subsidy has been gifted to Birchington and Ramsgate to 'buy' votes to keep Labour in power, and keep Labour voters working with the Tiggywinkles who hold the balance of power. Further jerrymandering in the shape of chairmanships is due shortly. The way the figures work out is quite simple and should be remembered by every car owner for the next year: 30 pence in every £ you put in an on street parking meter this summer pays for the political bribe to keep the minority Labour group in power. I am trying to imagine the joy with which you would have fully published and endorsed any Labour press release on the subject if this had been a Conservative decision. Shame on your deliberate obfuscation.<br /><br />Lastly, your casual dismissal of the Labour groups attempt to vote all councillors apay rise on the grounds of cost of living increases. All staff have had to make do with 1%; but now the Labour group and the Tiggywinkles believe they should be worth 3.5%. Is there a bigger cost of living rise for councillors than others then? Or is this just a shameful attempt to treat themselves as special and different, which you are willing to endorse?<br /><br />Frankly, part of me felt your questions were hardly worth response because of their blatant bias. In passing International Relations is the study of the ways in which countries inter act with each other, and in common groupings and insitutions; international law is one small part. My own speciality was strategic studies, particularly the theory and practice of nuclear strategy; might explain some things to some people.Chris Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04022576946890382047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-45231298087229374392012-04-29T11:57:53.097+01:002012-04-29T11:57:53.097+01:00Dear Michael
This is attempt number three to repl...Dear Michael<br /><br />This is attempt number three to reply to you, although your comment forms seems to have a mind of its own as to when a comment is complete! In your time rich environment, it does not seem to occur to you that some of us, unlike many of the local politicians you choose to praise, actually have to work for a living; and do not always spend our waking hours scanning the blogs for your pearls of wisdom. I was in London on Wednesday and Thursday; catching up with local matters friday; busy with beach huts saturday; and have only returned to your blog this morning, to be greeted by your disappointment that I have not rushed into your rather convoluted, clearly biased, rambling questions. I should not have to explain any of this to you really, but to a man who believes it is entertaining to publish regular pictures of his lunch on a plate as an illustration of the excitement of his day off, minutiae seems to matter.<br /><br />As you say yourself, your banana skins are so obvious they barely require any response at all. You have taken what I have said, partially interpreted it to your own satisfaction, and then used that contorted version as the basis for your questions.<br /><br />Pleasurama: you ask me to comment on a cabinet discussion I was not part of; based on paperwork that was, and I believe still remains, confidential. If your interest was as great as you claim, you would know that I was one of the few on either side of the chamber who expressed serious reservations about the change recommended by Cabinet when it came to full council. The key points in my speech concerned the poor nature of the banking references and business plan shown to us by the developer; a reminder that all of these problems stemmed from a poor decision to use a developer who was based oversea, on whom proper due diligence could not be undertaken, and who had been allowed to enter the contract without the usual bank backed personal guarantees - a decision of the previous Labour administration, something you so often forget to mention: and that the only reason I was prepared to countenance support was the involvement of Cardy, a reputable local company, and their willingness to put their own money into the arrangement. I am sure I have explained that position on your blog before; presumably you have airbrushed that view out of site as it does not fit with your current 'blame' scenario. The discussion at Cabinet recently was wide ranging, apolitical, and confidential - so anyone discussing it with you is breaching their obligations.<br /><br />You took a comment on the Maritime Museum, drew a false conclusion, and based your comments and questions on the false conclusion. I am truly happy for the people of Ramsgate that the Maritime Museum is open once again. It was clearly wanted by the town. The District Council's position has to be about weighing the public benefit against the costs involved in reopening, and/or opportunities lost for other uses for the period of the lease - what economists call opportunity cost. What is only now with publication of the lease anyone is able to consider is what the full costs are, and that is a somewhat complex calculation. The decision notice talks of £30,000 direct cost; Clive Hart used the sum of £40,000 as his measure in his speech on 19 April; so even within TDC there is apparantly some dispute as to the true cost. At first glance I believe the costs may be much higher. We shall do our own sums, and will respond in due course, through the relevant Shadow Cabinet member, probably Bob Bayford. In passing, I find it incredible you try to describe yourself as the nearest affected shop for the maritime museum; can I suggest you get out more and do some measured pacing between the relevant places?Chris Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04022576946890382047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-27310207372510296252012-04-28T16:12:32.557+01:002012-04-28T16:12:32.557+01:00Possibly the first politician to drop a banana ski...Possibly the first politician to drop a banana skin was the second politician, ever, in the hope that the first politician would slip on it.Michael Childhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499435016469020417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-91042410520742814342012-04-28T14:03:32.865+01:002012-04-28T14:03:32.865+01:00But she did not send one to Ian Douglas Smith so s...But she did not send one to Ian Douglas Smith so she was not racist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-84018796670564937682012-04-28T12:07:54.631+01:002012-04-28T12:07:54.631+01:00I am not sure what Blair has to so with this posti...I am not sure what Blair has to so with this posting but he was only following the lead given by Thatcher. You may recall that she set the ball rolling by sending xmas cards to both Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi and the Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-22606559735160041062012-04-27T20:41:29.844+01:002012-04-27T20:41:29.844+01:00Think some chap called Blair was also up to his ey...Think some chap called Blair was also up to his eyebrows with Gadaffi as well, so maybe the LSE took their lead from the Prime Minister of the day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575321478441277410.post-49305985798543775382012-04-27T19:53:40.329+01:002012-04-27T19:53:40.329+01:00cllr Wells is right, the LSE does have a reputatio...cllr Wells is right, the LSE does have a reputation even though its tainted for accepting Gaddafi's money and awarding Saif Gaddafi a master degree. Yet another dodgy degree with the LSE turning a blind eye to plagiarism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com