Thanet and the politics of the banana skin. A message for Councillor Chris Wells, said with flowers.

With the previous blog post and a few attempts at watching the councils webcast, I am coming to the conclusion that our local politics can be likened to a group of people in a large room with a shiny floor dropping banana skins, in the hope that others will trip over them.

Added to this is the surrounding publicity, saying that others have already tripped over a banana skin, regardless of whether they have or haven’t.

In fact so entrenched has this kind of thing become in some of our local politicians that I don’t think they can even consider moving into a situation where anything else is actually achieved. Common sense, previous education has all been replaced by watching for the banana skins and dropping them on the ground.

Council officers seem for the most part to fall into three categories, those involved with essential services, rubbish, parks, dogs mess and so on – those involved with government directives that no one understands and those handing out banana skins to councillors.

The difficulty with banana skins is they are not concerned about who they trip up, anyone will do, so having dropped a banana skin any councillor can fall over it including the councillor who dropped it.

Councillors can be split into two basic types those who stand very still to avoid slipping over and are just boring, and those who rush around dropping banana skins and falling over.

There are also some councillors and offices often new or young but not always picking up banana skins, these are often mistaken as droppers of banana skins by the rest, probably because they are often trying to get to the bin with a handful of banana skins.

As a blogger when it comes to engaging with the council, my main task is to try and pick up some of the banana skins, and I think for the most part councillors seem to think I am the biggest dropper of banana skins of all the bloggers.

I had one of these run-ins with Chris Wells and to a lesser extent Simon Moores on the blogs this week.

The banana skins in question related to financing The Royal Sands, Running Ramsgate Maritime Museum, parking in Thanet.

This all started on a post on Simon Moors blog see http://birchington.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/topsy-turvy-local-politics.html anyway Chris dropped the old banana skin, which is pay local councillors less, this obviously goes down the road of paying peanuts and getting monkeys.

This is what he said

“Chris Wells said...

If the Labour in Thanet believe that Will Scobie is their best choice to be Mayor so be it.

I think his supported pitch to increase councillors allowances by 3.5%, which you will all be able to view on webcast soon is rather more pertinent to his political nouse.

Then, as now he has the undoubted support of Ian Driver, (one of the TIGgywinkles) which may be another question over Will's political nouse!

Good luck to him. Iris will be a very hard act to follow. She has been a hard working Mayor, as have others in the past, and as far as I can judge done an excellent job.

I suspect he may find it a little more boring than he expects - but then as the TDC website still shows Mick Tomlinson as Mayor of Margate, it may be sometime before we notice Will is even in post!

8:33 AM”

anyway I replied to this:

Michael Child said...

Chris I think there is a bit of a problem over this allowances business and the whole business of council tax. I have my doubts that the few people locally who would take enough interest to understand what this would actually mean on the council tax bill resent paying.

You may need reminding that the people of Ramsgate voted, not all that long ago to have a town council, i.e. pay more for hopefully getting more out of local government.

Without being unkind here, some sort of plan for the current issues would be helpful, I know there isn’t much the Conservatives would do the Labour wouldn’t at district level, as most of it is unavoidable. Sweeping the streets, removing the rubbish, tending the parks. But there are issues local where a bit more than the old rhetoric wouldn’t go amiss. In Ramsgate there is Pleasurama under consideration at the moment, the maritime museum about to reopen but inevitably surrounded by the new events notice timing which could be a bit of a dampener this summer for any events they want to hold, there are probably other things here where the council has some power and when it comes to Margate, Broadstairs and the villages I am out of touch. I know Thanet Earth has just put in a new planning application, although I didn’t really understand its implications if any. You surely must have something to say about local issues, other than what is wrong with anything proposed by Labour.

1:22 PM 

Simon decided not to publish this comment as I think he construed it as me dropping banana skins, although eventually he did publish it. A post with a lot of comment on is a difficult thing to control, especially if you have a life to live as well.

In the meantime I published it here on a post a couple of days ago http://thanetonline.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/its-about-five-months-since-johnworrow.html

 Chris replied to it there:

“Chris WellsApr 24, 2012 03:59 PM

BSc (Hons) Economics and International Relations - LSE, as such things seem important to you Michael. I have never used the description other than on a CV or application form; tho given its reputation I do mention LSE from time to time.

As for the rest of your twisted morass of confused thinking: I have always said much on Pleasurama in debate in Council, and in the confidential discussions in Cabinet, which I presume no one regales to you as they are confidential. Until the last day or so there was little that could be publicly said about the Maritime Museum either, because Clive Hart treated it as an urgent decision in private, moving forward without scrutiny. Now at least some of the documents are publicly available we can all reach a judgement on the righteousness of the deal. The reason for delay until now was connected with the negotiations and how much the council was willing to cede to the new trust. Only now can what has been ceded be properly costed.

I notice you are silent on the political inequity of parking fees, and the effective use of parking fee income - and lack of income - in assuring votes for the minority labour administration from the Tiggywinkles. Dare I suggest you actually watch the debates on webcast when they come out; and see if you notice the Labour groups various attempts to stifle and silence debate? Or Clive Harts incredible statement that the new parking policy is 'fairer': £16680 free parking for Ramsgate; £24250 free parking for Birchington; around £1600 for Northdown Road; and £1100 for Broadstairs (under the Labour proposal, no one yet costed the change to Vere Road won through amendment).

There were members of the public at the meeting on thursday who were shocked by the bear pit brawling and background hubbub of the occasion; the threats to Labour members who voted for a Conservative amendment; and the constant barracking which does not come across on webcast. They were sitting very close to the Tiggywinkles and observed Councillor Worrow's behaviour throughout the evening. Modesty forbids me repeating their description in public.

As an observer Michael you consistently fail miserably to hide your bias; which is less political than simply whether or not councillors court your views, and visit your shop for fireside chats and advice. I have my own sages thank you; and have always preferred over the years the services of the Albion Bookshops, including their second hand offerings - having personally bought the Crossman Diaries and other political works of interest there. i miss the shops terribly, and read far less now, sadly.

I doubt you will consider this a proper response to your query, but given your self proclaimed brilliance you must also realise your 'questions' are rarely balanced and always political with a small p.

No doubt you will shortly be telling us that you once spent two years as a parking attendant so know all about the subject; your acclaimed expertise in all things must make you as ancient as Methusala, though clearly wonderfully preserved. And no, I am not drunk, having been a teetotaller for more than 25 years; unlike some who comment under various names late evening on the blogs.

In spite of all of this, I defend your right of free speech; criticise all you like. Just do us all the simple favour of admitting you do not always know what is going on; and certainly don't have a foolproof manner of vetting your sources and suggestions for truth.”

Still trying to pick up the various local banana skins I replied to him, in chunks.

“Michael ChildApr 25, 2012 03:08 AM

Chris thanks for responding, I appreciate your time and would genuinely like to know what your views are on the subjects you mention.

There is a lot for me to respond to and because my comment was on another blog much is off the subject here, I appreciate now that your field of expertise is economics and law, so I won’t bother you with anything related to engineering or safety issues.

I will start at the top of your comment with Pleasurama and if I get a chance later in the day try to deal with the others some of which I have very little understanding.

Humour me for a moment and if you wouldn’t mind responding to a few thoughts of mine as though the cabinet meeting three years ago and the meetings in this time frame were not as, it where, a total fog to me it would be helpful.

Why did the Conservative cabinet three years ago, decide to against officers advice and not determine the development on financial grounds?

Do you think the sale of the site freehold to be subject to the asset disposal process as it is council’s intention that the leases be surrendered and the development agreement be revoked prior to the completion of a new development agreement and freehold land transfer?

Do you reckon it would be possible to obtain borrowing based on the security of new build residential dwellings, on land that is designated as high risk flood zone by The Environment Agency without a flood risk assessment, when prospective buyers attempt to obtain mortgages to buy apartments and the monies obtained from the sale of apartments is required for further funding of the development?

Chris on to the maritime museum, obviously the deal has been struck here and it appears that from what you say it wouldn’t have been struck by a Conservative administration for this year, so the museum would have remained closed, the dry dock needing attention, the tug needing new plates and the historic vessels expelled from the heritage pontoon.

Are you saying that this is a bad deal and the Conservatives would have struck a better deal given more time? Or are you saying it was never the Conservatives intention strike a deal, and that the intention was not to support this project?

Much more importantly, now as the deal has been struck, is that the PST have considerable resources and had the intention to organise a series of events in Ramsgate throughout the summer.

Obviously because of the delays in striking the deal, they wouldn’t be able to comply with the timescale of the new council event licensing scheme, which means that going exactly by the book the council could prevent any events this summer.

Is it the Conservatives intention to support the museum and try to find ways that events can be held in Ramsgate this Summer, or is it the Conservatives intention to press for strict implementation of the rule book and prevent any events from occurring until next year?

Chris I consider the parking fees issue to be relatively minor compared to the overall parking problem, the most noticeable and potentially dangerous being the parking for The Turner Contemporary, where signage both telling people they are about to drive onto a pavement full of pedestrians and signage telling them where they could actually park for long enough to benefit the local economy is needed.

The most extreme case of parking restriction gone mad is the dead end road along Ramsgate Marina Esplanade.

The webcasting of council meetings is an area where I have an ongoing struggle with the council, I think this may have been partly responsible for getting them introduced and now I am trying to get them to put the videos on Youtube where the quality would be better and there would be no cost.

At the moment the reason I have from the officers is that this wouldn’t adequately protect the council’s copyright, something that just doesn’t make sense as you can download them from the council’s website.

Where I have traded in Ramsgate for 25 years the ongoing mania for double yellow lines is very damaging to the businesses and as most of it occurred after pedestrianisation when there was much less traffic, is viewed as an act of pointless spite by most people here.

Have no fears I will both publicise the webcast and watch it, when it eventually gets to the internet, one wonders what possible reason there could be for it taking so long to appear, one assumes officers only have to click on upload file like the rest of us.

Chris no fireside chats, no advising councillors here, just a sociable offer which I extend to you if I am not too busy at the time, my main point being that councillors need to get about Thanet and talk to local people.

I harbour no personal animosity towards officers and members, as some of them are authors I publish it would be difficult.

Incidentally Albion secondhand is still open, I have just received a local book order from them, which suggests the will remain open for a while, despite the new planning application.

Why I should think you drunk, or there was an improper aspect to your reply eludes me, you seemed a bit tired towards the end, I have no experience as a parking attendant beyond listening to Sgt Pepper, getting the odd parking ticket and handing my car keys to doormen which I expect involves a parking attendant somewhere.

Obviously as a shop assistant my grasp of things is limited, but I do my best to keep abreast the best I can and appreciate you defence of my right to free speech. I am however curious as to how you engage in this, defending of my right to free speech that is, is perhaps a weapon of some type involved?

Anyway I have done my best to respond to your comments and look forward to what you have to say about my responses.”

I guess the banana skins I am trying to pick up are pretty obvious, so I won’t expand on a post that is already too long, but still no reply from Chris.

I thought perhaps if I said it again but with flowers this time, I could possibly both get a reply and we could pick up some of the banana skins. 

it is well worth clicking on the pictures illustrating this post, so they enlarge.

For those of you with a sense of humour the Town Hall rich list has just been published at http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/thrl2012.pdf so you can check out TDC and see which officers are getting paid about £2,000 per week.

It’s a humbling thought really, to consider when they send me an email how much this actually costs.  


Actually this is much easier to follow on The Gazette’s website, see http://www.thisiskent.co.uk/worth/story-15933342-detail/story.html

The table below may help to unscramble it a bit, sorry about the funny kink in table that appears in some browsers, a typo on my part somewhere in the encoding, the moral here is don't try to to put a table in blogger it doesn't like that sort of script. 

Body Name	Name	Job Title	Service Area	FTE of minim			FTE Salary	Cash for Ca	Total Remuneration
Thanet District Council	Sue McGonigal	Chief Executive & 151 Officer	Corporate/Democratic		1	107112		£5,000.00	£112,112.00
Thanet District Council	Madeline Homer	Community Services Manager	Housing/Planning	1			84090	£4,000.00	£88,090.00
Thanet District Council	Mark Seed	Commercial Services Manager	Waste/Maritime	1			86493	£4,000.00	£90,493.00
Thanet District Council	Donna Reed	Shared Services Director	East kent Shared Service	1			94365	£4,500.00	£98,865.00
Thanet District Council	Harvey Patterson	Corporate & Regulatory Services Manager	Corporate/Democratic	1			68694	£3,500.00	£72,194.00
Thanet District Council	Sarah Carroll	Business Services Manager	Corporate	1			60117	£3,000.00	£63,117.00
Thanet District Council	Sarah Martin	Financial Services Manager	Finance	1			60117	£3,000.00	£63,117.00

For comparison here is what the elected councillors get, this has just gone up or is due to go up by an average of 3.5%, so they each get about £80 per week and then more on top detailed in the table below if they hold some special position.

MEMBERS’ ALLOWANCES SCHEME – 2011/2012

Basic Allowance

£4,360 each Member

	Position	Number	Allowance £		Possible maximum expenditure £
	Executive
	Leader	1	18,082		18,082
	Deputy Leader	1	10,776		10,776
	Cabinet Portfolio Holder	3	7,990		23,970
	Non-Executive
	Chairman of Council	1	2,188		2,188
	Vice Chairman of Council	1	1,530		1,530
	Opposition Group Leader	1	5,204		5,204
	Opposition Deputy Group Leader	1	2,304		2,304
	Shadow Cabinet	3	2,304		6,912
	Overview and Scrutiny Committee Chairman	1	7,990		7,990
	Overview and Scrutiny Committee Vice-Chairman	1	3,216		3,216
	Planning Committee Chairman	1	5,204		5,204
	Planning Committee Vice-Chairman	1	1,216		1,216
	Licensing Committee Chairman	1	3,216		3,216
	Licensing Committee Vice-Chairman	1	805		805
	Governance and Audit Committee - Chairman	1	5,204		5,204
	Governance and Audit Committee – Vice-Chairman	1	1,216		1,216
	Standards Committee - Chairman	1	1,216		1,216
	Standards Committee – Vice-Chairman	1	279		279
	Standards Committee – other Independent Member	2	139		278
	JTB Chairman	1	1,216		1,216
	TOTAL				346,182