News, Local history and Thanet issues from Michael's Bookshop in Ramsgate see www.michaelsbookshop.com I publish over 200 books about the history of this area click here to look at them.
Friday, 11 October 2013
Some notes on the historical origins of Ramsgate as a port.
16 comments:
Comments, since I started writing this blog in 2007 the way the internet works has changed a lot, comments and dialogue here were once viable in an open and anonymous sense. Now if you comment here I will only allow the comment if it seems to make sense and be related to what the post is about. I link the majority of my posts to the main local Facebook groups and to my Facebook account, “Michael Child” I guess the main Ramsgate Facebook group is We Love Ramsgate. For the most part the comments and dialogue related to the posts here goes on there. As for the rest of it, well this blog handles images better than Facebook, which is why I don’t post directly to my Facebook account, although if I take a lot of photos I am so lazy that I paste them directly from my camera card to my bookshop website and put a link on this blog.
Michael, are you sure Stonar was burnt to the ground by the French for I heard it was down to some bloke called Godden, though I suppose that could have been Pier Louis Godden. As for Edward III, I think the letter said he had a port in Margate on a day trip. Could be wrong, of course.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, interesting article and no mention of TDC stuff ups back in those days. On the other hand, some bloke with a beer belly and a megaphone was seen shouting outside the priory calling for an end to animal exports.
Alas Allan we have no insight until into the characters administering Kent until 1716 when Wake translated to the see of Canterbury as archbishop, local government at this time was administered by the clergy, enforced in the parishes by the churchwardens and overseen by the archbishop. Wake kept private notebook, which translates from the latin roughly:
DeletePatten of Whitstable keeps a mistress and does not pay his debts; Bourn of Ash is "allied to the sons of Eli”; Roberts of Queenborough, ale-house sot and debtor, "so impudent as nothing is like him"; Bate of Chilham, "proudest and stiffest man" in the diocese, allowing corpses to lie unburied for want of fees; Burroughs of Kingston, "most horribly covetous”; Ansell of Stowting and Cade of Sellindge, Jacobites and tavern-brawlers; Edward Dering of Charing who fought his own sister at the Swan Inn and threw her "head-cloths" into the fire; Hobbs of Dover, amasses pluralities; Isles of New Romney a notorious sot and Jacobite; Nicholls of Fordwich who preached that King George was a Foreigner, a Lutheran, and a Beggar-"a wicked, swearing. Lying, Drunken man".
A few recognisable characters in that lot then, Michael. Interesting how history repeats itself though, from fear of having the unfortunate Ann Barnes swamped with complaints, I shall not endeavour to make the links between past and present persons. Clearly though, Wake, who kept the notebook, was the John Hamilton of his day.
DeleteNot really sure about that William, I think John Hamilton is subjective to the point of being compulsive, I also feel Wake was a gentleman and sure sign of this is insults that lack error and confusion. Blundering along being rude to people regardless of whether those people have done or said something right or wrong, suggests someone who has aspirations towards a higher station in life, and resents their own origins. I don’t think Wake was subject to either of those issues.
DeletePerhaps, Michael, we should revert to the system whereby the church ran the local government. On average, the local clergy are better educated than the present administration and far less steeped in the history of politics whereby they still blame Thatcher for all our evils and herald the triumphs of Comrade Arthur. Also, one would hope, far less chance of fingers in the till or vested interest, other of course, than that of the Almighty.
ReplyDeleteAnon for many years we had a chain of bookshops in Hertfordshire, the one in Stevenage having been purchased from the religious bookseller SPCK, so we continued to supply the diocese of St Albans with prayer books, hymnals, alter candles and to provide the bookstall for diocesan synods.
DeleteOver the years we did this I ran several of these bookstalls, so I have first hand experience of the clergy making decisions. At this point in my comment I realise that words fail me…
Historically at one time I believe we chose our kings based on which could pee highest up the mast of a longship, history fortunately doesn’t say how queens were chosen, but as alternative to democracy it may also have its advantages.
Wake's predecessor and mentor as Archbishop of Canterbury saw the death of Queen Anne as a bit of a blessing. Time for him to bring in the Hanoverians. He had also helped finalize the union of England and Scotland. He had sorted out the kingdom much to his liking so seems to have left Wake nothing much to do but disapprove of the Kent local clergy (with emphasis on the local where they spent most of their time)
DeleteAh anon, I see from your spelling that you are an American so feel obliged to defend our English clerics.
DeleteWake didn’t criticise, or as you would say criticize his clergy, but he did keep a private notebook (Notitia Dioces Cantuar,) discovered after his death and now in Canterbury Cathedral Library. Not all of his descriptions were negative – he had a lot of clergy to manage and remember – he for instance, describes Lewis of Margate as; “vir probus, doctus, diligens; concionator bonus” there is also the problem of my translations, “a conscientious studious hardworking jolly good chap” perhaps?
Personally I think Lewis may have been a bit formidable, his will states that his sermons are to be burnt, “so as not to encourage slothfulness in others”
Evidently Allan Poole must be descended from Lewis if his lengthy sermons to the gathered councillors are anything to go by. Mind you, whereas Poole pontificates the Labour doctrine, Ian Driver's contribution is an exercise in dramatic delivery amounting to not very much substance. He would have made a good reformist, all fire and brimstone and to hell with the established order.
DeleteApologies anon my deliberate mistranslation of the latin was supposed to funny, it actually translates as “an honest man, who is intelligent, loving and a good preacher” I have had long day extrapolating information from mediaeval rolls relating to the isle of Thanet.
DeleteThis is to do with what latin sounds like and what it actually means, try for instance saying aloud:
Caesar ad sum jam forti
Brutus et erat
Caesar sic in omnibus
Brutus sic in at
Perhaps 'Pontifisus Driver exspansitum exspouti maximus drivelus' is more appropriate to Thanet's forum.
DeleteTo quote an eminent local political leader "Nescis quia tu natus est"
DeleteMichael, in English, "Z" is the classicist choice isn't it ? But if we continue this I feel sure we would shortly be called "Pedants".
ReplyDeleteOn the subject of "Brimstone" I think that was the original name of Guildford Lawn ? Then along came Plymouth Brethren (What became the Ramsgate small boat owners place) and didn't like their chapel address being Brimstone Square.
And for you my friend "Nezciz quia tu natuz ezt"
ReplyDeleteI think they meant zulphur
Zulphur Zquare. Turn up in a reliable jamjar bearing a frezhly made homemade milkzhake ?
DeleteHave you been in touch with John Williams ex Margate museum curator ? I believe he had (has) just about everything ever press published re Ramsgate HarbourI. Beachcomber can put you in touch.
Thanks anon I don’t think there will be much of a problem after the early 1700s there is even a map from 1723, far more material than I could use, for what will be a book about Ramsgate fishing smacks, it is the period before that I am working on at the moment. The difficulty being that the fishing was going on before anyone wrote anything down and even when they did they weren’t much interested how it was done.
DeleteNo maps no pictures, just few legal documents and the letters from the monarchs.