Update
New Shop in Ramsgate High Street So Very Last Century
Many thanks to Matthew Griffiths & Paul Naudin for
sending me the photos a result of a comment in the previous post and I
will endeavour to get there in the not to distant future.
This is the part of the concrete cliff wall that appears to have no foundations, as detailed here http://www.thanetonline.com/cliff/ the plans show the pillars between the block infills hanging on steps in the chalk cliff face, well the plans do actually show foundations too, but as you can see when Cardy dug an inspection hole after I said it looked like there weren't any, there weren't any. Granted with the arched bit of the cliff wall they dug an inspection hole and this bit did have foundations.
Do I think it will all come crashing down? well I guess the answer is that the bit that's bulging looks like it will probably go in about two or there years if left unattended and I think there would be more in the way of major visible cracks before a big collapse there.
My take has always been much more along the lines of there needs to enough space to maintain the cliff, in front of the cliff wall, for the life of anything built in front of it.
Anyway here are some pictures of Ramsgate cliff collapses http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/collapse/index.htm
So a few questions and answers where I can on this one.
Q What causes an inclining wall made of concrete blocks to bulge
in this way?
A A chalk fall behind it the weight of the chalk pressing on
the back of the wall makes it bulge outwards.
Q How do you safely knock down the block wall, so you can
rebuild it?
A Use a long JCB digger type of thing, with a big spike on the end
and the cab where the operator is sitting a long way from the wall, about as
far away as wall is high for favourite.
Q How do you safely knock down the block wall, so you can
rebuild it with the back of The Royal Sands 12 feet way from it?
I got excited when I saw the title of today's blog thinking that you had ventured up the High Street and noticed two new businesses that have opened. These being So Very Last Century at 77 and Island Collectables opposite at 74. I shamelessly plug the former. Next time you have a wander come and have a browse.
ReplyDeleteSorry about that Mathew, if you send me photos I will add them to the post, my email address is on the sidebar. I will try and get up The High Street and make amends asap
Deletephotos now added to the post
DeleteSince that has been debate about whether Ramsgate is on the up post airport maybe Matthew can tell us whether this influenced his decision to open a shop in Ramsgate.
ReplyDeleteIts not the bulge that bothers me its the void left behind above. its very hard to see but if you expect the chalk behind to fall out once the block work is taken away then it will have to be filled. It will be water that has made the void above that means that there must have been a void below maybe a tunnel or cave that has not been filled. the chalk is very porous and will wash away unless it has nowhere to go like a inclined wall. Are the piers bowing out as well? if so its time to contact the borough engineer !!!!
ReplyDeletePurple Om, presumably of the UKIP party from your choice of colour, you are a real wit and the latest in a long line of Thanet bards who write a load of ill informed garbage based entirely on personal prejudice rather than fact. Just because something is porous it does not necessarily follow that it will wash away. Sometimes it is the less porous material that breaks up under the pressure from water, not having the option to let it seep through.
DeleteAs for 'Ramsgate on the up post Manston,' how long do you think it takes, Anon, to research and prepare to open a business along with the time to acquire premises. Very much doubt this was a sudden rush of blood by Matthew since Manston closed and, in case in your Dim world you had not noticed, shops have been opening and closing in Ramsgate for years regardless of airports, ferry services or hoverports. Such will no doubt continue but I wish Matthew well with his venture.
DeletePurple Om back in 2009 I spotted another bulging panel, which was eventually hacked out and rebuilt. I first pointed the one in this post and various other visible faults in the cliff façade to the council’s engineer about four years ago. About three years ago the council got it inspected and decided that this and several other panels should be replaced immediately and that the façade should be inspected every three years. Nothing happened after that, now I could write to them again and again and I am sure it would result in another patch, but the fundamental underlying problem is that the cliff façade has to be maintained for the life of the development and without a bigger gap to do this in I can’t see how it can be.
Easy, just employ thin builders!
Delete10.09
Deletelabour all the way I'm not an idiot, and thanks for the info I was wondering what to build my new house out of now I know that chalk is such a good building material, stupid fellow.
The trolls were out last night I hope the pent up poison in them shortens their lives
Purple OM: 18 June 12:26 pm,
DeleteIn your minds view anyone who disagrees with you or angers you should suffer an early death. You really are a nasty piece of work.
You are a prime target, One day you will be looking at a blog where you have insulted some one and they will have retorted you will feel a pain across your chest and there will be no one to save you because you have driven them all away though spite.
DeleteJust mellow out and instead of insulting everybody, try to have a reasoned debate
Why am I not surprised at your Labour claims since the intellect is about on par for that party. Add the nasty bits like wishing early demise on those that disagree with you and you have all the hallmarks of a Labour politician. So the Purple Om stems more from your oriental leanings than political but what else would one expect from one who supports the party of uncontrolled immigration.
DeleteWill ignore the sarcasm about chalk as a building material, but perhaps you should investigate the difference between soluble and porous. Mind you, if you remain convinced that chalk easily gets washed away, don't go down the Ramsgate tunnels!
Purple Om 18 nJune 4:43 pm,
DeleteYou get worse. With your death threats you really are an odious little creep.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete"wishing early demise on those that disagree with you"
DeleteNo its just helpful advise John and you don't have to go anon your twisted poison can be reaconized mile away
Purple Om,
DeleteWhy would I go anon when I have already called you an odious little creep.
thanet blogging but a new low here - I'm off
DeleteIn the picture of harbour parade you mentioned the smell if you look in the right hand corner there is a iron shaft that used to operate a sluice door leading to the sewer on spring tides this would be opened and the sewer flushed with thousands of gallons of salt water clearing the build up of sediment this area has always had a problem but it was alleviated by the periodic flushing from the harbour.
ReplyDeleteStargazer
Thank you Stargazer, that's interesting.
DeleteStargazer this used to be the case when the outfall pipe was on the western undercliff now the sluice doesn’t lead to anything and if it did wouldn’t help as the sewage is pumped to the sewage farm near to Walpole Bay where it is processes before being discharged into the sea there.
DeleteAbout four years ago when we had a similar problem, after much flooding of the businesses in Harbour parade they did clean out the pipe down there and it stopped flooding until about a month ago.
The old sluice and outfall system can be viewed on the 1849 map which I publish.
I was told that recently the harbour has inspected the sluice gates with frogmen however we still await the outcome of the inspections
DeleteDifferent sluice gates Barry the ones the inspected are the ones between the inner and outer harbour. These used to be for using the head of water in the inner harbour to flush the sand out of the outer harbour.
DeleteWe publiff a book about this fee http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/Smeaton
Chalk can be a very good building material and you will find that the foundations and basement walls of many of our Georgian and Regency buildings have chalk blocks incorporated in them. supporting a brick barrel vault.
ReplyDeleteOne I know well in Liverpool Lawn has a large underground retaining wall in its cellar built entirely from chalk. It's all in amazingly good condition and has been there since 1836!
The 'local' experts on different chalk strata and their structural properties must be Eurotunnel - or at least the builders of the Channel Tunnel who exploited the different layers to their advantage.
The downward force form above is displaced at 45% chalk has no supportive strength is if there is a void below and there is water ingress form above it will not hold up anything. that is what I said in my post. Not that it cant be used as foundations as my house is built without foundation straight on to bed rock in this case chalk.
DeleteForm above, now that is an interesting term though what it mean escapes me. Still, must not lose face so pretend it means something or maybe, just maybe, I am debating with an idiot.
DeleteNot sure if you all really want to understand the problem here, or discuss spelling grammar and the annihilation of internet trolls, but it is basically thus:
DeleteThis area of cliff has a well documented history of unpredicted and very large cliff falls.
The concrete façade is not a support structure but is there to help prevent weathering.
The area behind the façade has been extensively tunnelled, partly for HMS Fervent in WW2 and partly before that.
Naval guns were installed there during both wars and used, the effects of the vibration on the chalk is very difficult to ascertain.
The clifftop has been surfaced and at various times the surface has deteriorated causing the rainwater, which is an acid and reacts with the chalk which is alkaline, to be concentrated into small areas of runoff through the chalk.
I am now not answering anybody who I think is trolling its just non stop sh*t coming from them then thay have the cheek to ask why nobody blogs any more.
ReplyDelete