Sunday, 12 May 2013

Sunday Ramble


Best see this one as a work in progress, which probably won’t work.

My attempts to try and work out what is going on seem to wind up with accusations of socialism, I don’t think it is easy to get across the point that I don’t like any of the political parties, or their ideologies, very much and when I vote try to chose the lesser of the evils.

I guess something that does seem to have happened in all of the recent elections is that non floating voters seem to have voted UKIP, my attempts to work out if all of these were Conservative only seems to result in me getting labelled as Labour.

It does look as though the majority of the floating voters voted UKIP and were joined by a fair chunk of the Conservative voters, my take being that Thanet voters producing Labour seats is reliant on floating voters voting Labour and not Labour voters not voting Conservative or Conservative voters voting Labour.

At the last TDC elections there was a sense of Conservative voters voting Labour here in Ramsgate that I think had much to do with the council owned empty properties in the town.

In all of the various results over the last few days the unusual one was Will Scobie getting his seat at county and I am inclined to think there is an age aspect here, which the politicians need to consider.

Talking to the youf of today I have more than a little of an indicator that the catalyst for bothering to vote would be having a candidate that had the slightest interest in youth issues.

A couple of sketches from The Belgian café in Ramsgate on Friday evening, sketching people in public is a tricky business.

 with this one i did try a photo afterwards, the mobile phone doesn't work too well in low light. 



The staff in the café move about a lot so it is very difficult to nail anything much more that an impression.

A few pictures from Friday evening here https://plus.google.com/photos/103118335852639233427/albums/5877125487601788385?banner=pwa mobile phone cameras are not very good at night shots, but a few interesting bits including the Sundowner out of the water



A sketch in Waterstones café today, nothing much I know.

I added a couple of today's sketches as I didn't get around to posting today, sorry about that.

131 comments:

  1. If I was an employer I would prefer it that my staff moved about a lot especially in a bar. The council elections wont change anything TDC dont even take Portas seriously http://towns.org.uk/2013/05/10/underuse-puts-clause-69-in-a-league-of-its-own-for-pointless-policy/

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  2. Michael UKIP took votes from both Conservative and Labour. The Conservatives nationally because they wont get us out of Europe and Labour because no-one knows what Labour stands for - other than to proliferate the benefit culture and to have to share the available benefits with more and more gypsy immigrants from Bulgaria and Romania. The Conservatives locally have got to face the facts that when in office they rubber stamped incompetent officer decisions which resulted in the empty Ramsgate properties you mention. They should have been proactive in Ramsgate but unfortunately were not.

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  3. Don, You don't expect a Labour administration to support business surely.

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    1. what makes you think that all my working life governments of both main parties have hindered the small businesses and now we have a coalition things have not changed. I worked for myself all my life and have come to the conclusion they only help those who are best qualified to help themselves. If you are a SME forget it. I keep banging on about Thanet Press but to put fifty employee''s on the dole for a tax bill that was the equivalent to a few weeks dole money is ludicrous. TDC's administrations of either party have no intention of helping anyone. They are so protective of the budget they dont want to promote anything to create employment in case it cost a few coppers.

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  4. Allan MallinsonMay 12, 2013 1:08 pm

    Michael, I do not think your analysis works for Northwood where a seat won comfortably by Labour in 2011 has gone to UKIP.

    In reality, the Conservatives in Thanet expected a loss of support and thought that UKIP might split their vote to let in Labour. Labour on the other hand were expecting to clean up and were evidently very shocked, whatever light the spokespeople put on it, at their failure to make any inroads. There is no comfort anywhere for the two major parties.

    The Will Scobie result bucked the trend, but even he came second to a UKIP candidate in his division, despite having been heavily promoted by Labour for some two years now including his high profile stint as mayor. His youth may also have attracted some of the younger voters, but I do not think this should be some blueprint for the future.

    I have a strong objection to career politicians with no real life experiences deciding what is best for me and I do not think it is that much of a good idea for young Will. It is precarious and, if in four years time he is cast aside as a result of an unpopular central Labour government, he will be then late twenties. Far better to build a career first, get a professional qualification and experience, and then go into politics if you wish. At least then, when it goes belly up, you have something to fall back on.

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    1. If you have a strong objection to career politician then David Cameron is a typical example. Are you saying he is not fit for office? But the tories don't have a monopoly on career politicians.

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    2. I don't see what's wrong with "career politicians" myself. Does someone who (say) sells carpets or pilots aircraft or photographs nude models make better politicians?

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    3. Probably yes, because at least they know what it is like to have to earn a living in the real world and pay for their own TV rather than claiming it on expenses.

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    4. Allan MallinsonMay 12, 2013 4:23 pm

      Anon, 3:44, David Cameron is an excellent example of a career politician totally out of touch with real people. Yes, I am saying he is unfit to lead, give me a Churchill who has done something else everytime.

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    5. Peter, I have two relatives who are graduates the same age as Will Scobie. One has used his degree to get a post with a firm of accountants working towards his professional qualification whilst the other got into the military academy and is now a Lieutenant in the army. When Will finishes his four years at county hall, the first of my young relatives will be a chartered accountant and the other a Captain. Both well established on their career paths whereas Will, if he is not re-elected, will be living on jobseekers and Jodie's child benefit.

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    6. I have one of Will’s age, just finishing his chemistry masters and about to embark on his doctorate, I hope he will make a good chemist and that Will will make a good politician. I think the argument here is that if my one changes from chemistry to politics in say 10 years time he will make a better politician than Will.

      I am not really sure that this case holds water, I guess the previous system we had, that worked for over 200 years was having major European wars Napoleonic, WW1 WW2, to give our men life experience to make “good politicians, this combined with preventing women from becoming politicians produced what we had.

      Were these better politicians? Certainly Churchill was good at the war you need to make a good war politician.

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  5. I guess I will work away on this like a tooth cavity still uncertain a about aspects of the Thanet vote

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    1. Allan MallinsonMay 12, 2013 3:00 pm

      I don't think there is much uncertainty as those who bothered to vote in both Labour and Conservative areas sent a very clear message that they are disenchanted with both parties. If the Conservatives did get into bed with UKIP, commanding about 70% of the votes cast between them they would, theoretically, sweep the board in 2015. Of course, knowing politicians egos, it will not happen, Cameron will still insult UKIP voters, many of whom were once Tories, and they will finish up cutting each others throats.

      In the meantime, the devious Clegg, anxious to cling to his job and salary, will be cosying up to Labour proposing tactical voting and sundry skullduggery as is his wont. Stand by for another ineffectual coalition even worse than the current one.

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  6. I don't think Will's age had much to do with things as much as the fact that he managed a year of being a mayor without getting into any fights or killing any animals...

    People are still assuming that the UKIP vote is all about immigration, but (again) I think it's got more to do with traditional Tory voters being dissatisfied with what the party has become, with gay marriage and the conviction of Sandy Ezekiel being the two final straws.

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    1. Sandy Ezekiel hardly effected the vote outside Thanet, but UKIP still did well elsewhere and particularly in areas like Lincolnshire where East European immigration is a real problem. Gay marriage, you are right, was a major issue with a lot of normal Tory voters.

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  7. Allan

    I was supported (In reporting to MOD, MI5 and Attorney General) a lot by tory MP Roger Evans of Monmouth. A barrister. The ability he brought to parliamentary office was awesome. I timed him reading and assimilating my typed reports at the rate of 19 pages every five minutes. I could phone him a year later and he would remember every name, every association and every implication without having to refer to the file. He lost the seat to Labour's Huw Edwards a lecturer in social policy. TBH compared to Roger Evans Huw was like a slightly backward primary school kid.

    This is the age old problem exemplified by the US Presidency. People can only recognise cleverness up to 20 IQ points higher than their own. Since the average IQ is 100 then IQs up to 120 will be at an electoral advantage. In the Commons Mandelson had the highest IQ (In the absence of Roger Evans) at a modest 130 or so.

    If a person is more than 20 points more intelligent then people interpret his intelligence as stupidity.

    George W Bush takes some explaining though ....

    Democracy is the way to ensure rule by the mediocre of ability.








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    1. Allan MallinsonMay 12, 2013 4:31 pm

      All very well, but many people with really high IQs are a bit eccentric or so deep in thought that every day mundane things pass them by. We are probably better served by those with a just above average IQ, but a realistic grasp on life.

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    2. The top of government at the moment seems to be Oxbridge which infers high IQs, I think. Is it working? Apparently not. A couple of my friends from my youf are barristers, they certainly have high IQs. Would I want them running the country, more than who? I don’t know really, a business entrepreneur, trade union leader, just what skills would make the politician.

      Per size of country and population we have one of the world’s highest gnps in the world, so we should have a high standard of living, regardless of how bad our public sector is.

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  8. Maybe all those votes were not really FOR UKIP but AGAINST all the others?

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    1. Col this is part of what I think, you will find saying so will make Conservative councillors assume you are Labour and Labour councillors think you are conservative, which interests me.

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    2. I am pretty sure Col is right, that this was against both major parties, but he will not be accused because he is being even handed. You, on the other hand, Michael, were trying to suggest that it was only Conservatives that lost votes. Naturally, that smacks of being a bit pink at least and virtually echoes what is coming out of Labour HQ.

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    3. Michael you so get your knickers in a twist when you are accused of socialist bias, so lets start again. Your analysis was flawed in many ways, but in particular you added the independent votes to the labour votes, on what assumption? But did not add UKIP votes to Tory ones - on what assumption?
      Your continuing spirited defence of silver spoon scobie is equally hilarious. He got elected, yes; he beat me, yes. Two basic reasons: he worked Dane Valley as an area over and over again, with various messages, and gambled on bringing out reluctant labour and floating voters with some success, tho having been with him at the count, it was far from certain this had worked for a while as the turnout in Dane Valley was still not great. Secondly he was placed by the labour party quite deliberately in a high profile role as mayor in the year before the election, effectively able to conduct a PR campaugn at the expense of the public purse. Clearly worked for you.....

      You continue to defend his lack of life experience, but anyone who has been in politics a little while is well aware oif those who have little experience outside politics, something which often leads to strange policy directions from those who have led a sheltered life. Certainly not a conservative or labour problem alone, they both have charaters of this type.

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    4. Will Scobie's 'professional profile' from Linked in

      Will Scobie's Overview
      Current Kent County Councillor for Margate and Cliftonville at Kent County Council
      Thanet District Councillor for Dane Valley ward at Thanet District Council
      Past Town Mayor of Margate at Margate Charter Trustees
      Administrative Assistant at Mary Honeyball MEP
      Transport manager at Churchill House School of English
      Au Pair at -
      Parliamentary Assistant at European Parliament
      Teaching assistant at Kompass language school
      Shop assistant at EDJ greengrocers
      Kitchen Assistant at Pinkies restaurant

      Education University of Kent
      University of York
      Dane Court Grammar School
      Connections 30 connections
      Will Scobie's Experience
      Kent County Councillor for Margate and Cliftonville Kent County Council
      Government Agency; 10,001+ employees; Government Administration industry

      May 2013 – Present (1 month)

      Thanet District Councillor for Dane Valley ward Thanet District Council
      Government Agency; 501-1000 employees; Government Administration industry

      May 2011 – Present (2 years 1 month)

      Town Mayor of Margate Margate Charter Trustees

      May 2012 – May 2013 (1 year 1 month)

      Administrative Assistant Mary Honeyball MEP

      September 2012 – March 2013 (7 months)

      Transport manager Churchill House School of English

      May 2010 – October 2011 (1 year 6 months) Ramsgate

      Au Pair -

      June 2009 – October 2009 (5 months) Mulheim an der Ruhr

      Parliamentary Assistant European Parliament
      Government Agency; 5001-10,000 employees; Political Organization industry

      June 2007 – September 2008 (1 year 4 months)

      Teaching assistant Kompass language school

      June 2007 – August 2008 (1 year 3 months)

      Shop assistant EDJ greengrocers

      May 2005 – May 2006 (1 year 1 month)

      Kitchen Assistant Pinkies restaurant

      May 2004 – May 2006 (2 years 1 month)

      Will Scobie's Education
      University of Kent Master of Arts (M.A.), European Governance
      2010 – 2012

      Grade: Merit


      University of York BA, History and Politics
      2007 – 2010

      Grade: 2:1


      Dane Court Grammar School A levels
      Grade: Politics A, History A, English Literature A, General Studies A, Chemistry A

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    5. Interesting Chris, it certainly begs the question, what experiences of life or minimum age would make one best suited to being one of our councillors?

      I guess his Thanet generation interests me, I have two Thanet born children of my own in the same age bracket as does my brother, I also know several of their friends.

      Taking the assumption that you agree that local politicians should be local people, I am not sure that they shouldn’t also represent the age spectrum of the electorate.

      Not sure really that I am either defending Will or making firm statistical assumptions based on where the UKIP vote came from.

      I am certainly interested in why Will got elected particularly as Labour candidates in what I assumed to be safer Labour seats didn’t. I am also particularly interested as to why he got elected when none of the other Labour or Conservative candidates did.

      I guess if you add the UKIP votes to the Conservative votes then you have just had an astounding political victory, but it doesn’t seem that way.

      I also guess that if you view this as a huge swing towards the right then wills victory was even more astounding.

      I was certainly aware in the run up to the election that he had considerable public support and a lot of this seemed to be aimed at the individual rather than his politics, quite a few of my small C conservative Margate customers seemed to be exceptionally proud of their young mayor.

      I seem to remember mentioning to you in the run up to the election, that I thought your continual Will Scobie bashing wasn’t doing you any good, particularly among those voting for the person rather than the party.

      I have my doubts that that telling anyone who votes for different parties come elections that they are socialists helps the Conservative candidates that much either, you may find this hard to believe, but not everyone who isn’t a committed Tory is a Labour supporter, or perhaps in view of the recent results you are beginning to understand this even if you don’t acknowledge this.

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    6. If Will's PR campaign was "at the expense of the public purse", then I guess so was Ted Watt-Ruffell's lying in court and then keeping the money after being convicted of animal cruelty. Call me old fashioned, but I know which one I prefer.

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    7. You should be a politician Michael, something I know you sometimes think you are, cos you did not answer the qeustion at all did you, simply went back to justifying your own position.

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    8. Ahhh, but is working in a bookshop sufficient "life experience"?!

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    9. Ah Peter, I was thinking more of Michaels role as an engineer and calculations like equationss. If you treat the left wing of the equation one way, by adding them together, should you not treat the right wing the same? That seems to ring bells from my old maths teacher. Instead we getfurther justifications of wqhat he wants to be true......Will did very well in the circumstances, but please recall the labour party expected to win both Margate and Cliftonville seats easily. The Labour vote was done a couple of hundred; mine down by about 1150; UKIP up by about 500. In there somewhere there are a load of people who did not come out to vote, particlularly for the conservative party. I know who they are because they told me of their stance as we canvassed. They did not want to vote for the current governing party but wouild not vote for labour or UKIP. Lets assume Michael's right and all UKIP extra votes came from me; that leaves me with about 650 voters who sat on their hands, and are likely to return because of their refusal to vote for another party. Sowhere did the 200 or so labour vote fall go then Michael? Were they stay at homes or gone to UKIP? Will might know, but at a guess some went to UKIP if you looked at the posters in the working class parts of the island. Assume 100 back to Will; and another 100 from UKIP back to me and we are all, 2 labour 2 conservative and 2 UKIP within a few votes of each other for the seat, and right wing voters in the area will have also realised a vote for UKIP potentially lets in labour, who I remind you expected to win handsomely. Want to think that analysis through Michael?

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    10. Chris you could well be right, frankly I think the Conservatives locally have made a bit of a mistake over the way they have dealt with the independents, which they seem to have labelled as all being left wing without actually appearing to look at what they have been saying and doing.

      I think there is also a movement in local politics that although small at the moment it is growing rapidly and this is internet related and frankly none of the local politicians seem to have got to grips with this.

      I do wonder how much of the young vote, that voted for Will, did so because of his facebook and twitter presence.

      Just at the moment you seem to and Simon Moores certainly is, knocking him for having a Linked In presence, strangely copying Will’s presence and not your own into the comment form here. As he won and you lost, one would have thought if you were going to put up his you would have put up your own for comparison.

      I guess from my point of view and most of the other readers who are not local politicians, the recent election results are a matter of minor curiosity, I don’t think any of as think who gets elected makes much difference to what KCC do in Thanet. And of course the TDC result wouldn’t and didn’t change anything much there.

      You seem to be much more interested in trying to prove that locals like me are actually some sort red under the bed threat, than realising that to most of us at a national level there doesn’t seem much to chose between Conservative and Labour.

      If there is a real area of confusion for me as a voter at the moment, it is having no idea what the Conservative councillors locally or the Labour politicians nationally actually stand for. Both seem to be strong on their respective oppositions being wrong, but not much else.

      Come the TDC elections I guess I will be wondering where you lot stand on, night flights, Pleasurama, the pavillion, the museum, the port and so on and not particularly interested in your view as to why Labour is wrong.

      Come the national elections, I will be interested in what Labour’s view is on Europe, our town centres and so on and not so much why Labour think the coalition is has got it wrong.

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    11. Michael your first paragraph is, once again, a piece of fantasy. The first months of this electoral term at TDC were with a Conservative administration, working with the then 3 strong genuinely independent group. A situation which only changed when Messrs Driver and Worrow did their assorted walking acts, created a new group, and did a deal with the labour party, assisted by the death of a Tory Councillor, thus changing the electoral maths.

      You keep banging on about the power of the internet in your view, and you my be right. But it has done little to help Ian Driver, Paris Brown, or even John Worrow. There is no evidence it helped Will Scobie, just your guesswork, though I would agree it will probably have helped with younger voters, as proved by Nadine Dorries as well.

      I simply copied in the link, making no comment. The same information has been available on Will's facebook page for some time, and I resisted the temptation to use it in the election campaign. Linked in is used specifically by various professionals to make linkages and contacts in other firms and professions; I am on there, but in no detail because I generally use the more specific and less well known industry linkages for my work.

      I do not wish to prove anything, merely point out the flaws in your thinking, and when there is a pattern, point out the obvious. There is no malevolence in it, perhaps a wry smile.

      Your last paragraphs are the most interesting, and revealing. I have interacted with you endlessly upon almost all of those topics (except perhaps the pavilion). You just refuse to accept anything put to you which differs from your own demand, and the underlying theme that Ramsgate deserves more public money from the TDC purse than it gets. In other words, your vote is 'buyable' - an interesting thought indeed!

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    12. You seem to have finally grasped it Chris, I am not actually a Labour party activist, but yes my vote is buyable by the party or politician offering the best deal for me my family and business.

      Labour I think achieved what they did in terms of TDC seats because they put something tangible on the table, no night flights. The Conservatives didn’t and appeared to be offering the airport about the same amount of night flights as a major London hub airport with no linkage to any economic benefits i.e. no ration to day flights and therefore economic benefits.

      This time around UKIP are offering something tangible that people can understand and I think they bought the voters. With the KCC elections I did my best to discover what the various candidates and parties were offering to buy my vote with.

      I looked on the internet, googled the candidates names and so on and they didn’t seem to be selling anything much at local level that benefited me my family or business.

      At the moment Port Ramsgate seems to have pretty much gone bust, is mopping up council money for virtually no income, so what about a radical look at that, does it have potential for something that is profitable and would bring more people here?

      Pleasurama into another season with a derelict building site, any chance of getting the site, or part of the site cleared for leisure and parking use this year, it is a big council lump and is generating no income.

      The parking beyond Pleasurama a dead end road behind the main sands with double yellow lines, no loading lines commensurate with central London, what about some parking income and some places for visitors to park there.

      Perhaps if you start buying us now we may vote for you in the future.

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    13. Ian Driver seemed to base much of his election campaign around Pleasurama, and look where that got him! So things obviously aren't quite that simple.

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  9. I'm still wondering where Driver has got to now that there's not an upcoming election.

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    1. Planning his next publicity stunt perhaps. After all, its his Overview and Scrutiny call-in meeting this week (he has a problem with the Councils probity review because it doesnt consider implications of offshore companies or the filming of Council meetings, apparently) and with Council and Cabinet coming up, he's not short of opportunities...

      In fairness he's probably trying to get his election accounts together. Given his problems with spelling and his problems in past Council meetings with budgets, he might need some help.

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    2. James that made me smile I must admit he must like the sight of himself on tele or listening to himself on radio, so why he should against filming if he is in anyway likely to appear is beyond me. But I am smiling even though I am thinking about Driver now that is even stranger than the fact people voted UKIP rather than a political party.

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    3. I think you're a little confused Don, as Driver is most definitely NOT against filming.

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    4. A very accurate assesment of the situation James. I must admit, I am intriqued as to what his next publicity stunt is, and just how much he is groveling to the powers that be in teh labour party for re-admitance after his monumental failure at the election.

      Surely after his UTTER rejection at the election, standing under his true colours, and his appalling behaviour at the last 2 council meetings, there has to be a solid argument that says he has no mandate whatsoever to hold the post of chairman of anything....

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  10. Chris. You need to reflect on the reasons for your defeat rather than assume that anyone else's reflections are flawed. In fact try reflecting on why the Tories were thumped all over the Island.
    Michael. As I've explained before the Tories "lost" Ramsgate because they lost Nethercourt. They lost Nethercourt because they refused to accept that night flights are a major issue on that estate - and their continued failure to recognise this allows the present incumbents to become more firmly entrenched

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  11. Well Tim, lets hear your thinking then, I have been pretty open and honest about the reasons since the election, please advise me.

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  12. My personal view is that in a "normal" mid term election the Opposition party usually benefits from the disgruntled and disaffected. However, the official Opposition are still seen to be the cause of the problem in the first place and have not yet regained public trust with the Economy. Locally you can see the profligate spending habits of Clive and his cohorts. Baby Will, of course, blames everything on the monimum wage being too low.
    So if the protest vote isn't going to Labour then in the past it went to whatever the Liberals were calling themselves at the time. Of course that wasn't appropriate this time because they are part of the Government and therefore the Bad Guys. Independents are a discredited force on Thanet so that only left UKIP.
    Mark my words on Nethercourt. Jill and Brenda lost it because they didn't pay attention to what their ward was saying. Without Nethercourt you will not regain control and every day the two Labour councillors are embedding themselves deeper in pffoce.

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  13. Your first two paragraphs do not seem to differ all that much from what I have said, in particular the hidden message to the labour party. My criticism of Michael was his unwilingness to consider or admit this, alongside the conservative difficulties. I would add that the UKIP vote has more strands than disgruntled and disaffected, and if it is dismissed as that the problems will persist.

    Going back 2 years to Nethercourt, Brenda and Jill spent much time reassuring electors they had a free vote to represent their views on the airport, and would vote against on their behalf. The current embedding is based on an anti airport stance which could well cost many potential jobs, so not sure how much further anyone could go if they were pro jobs through things like the airport.

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  14. I'm afraid that Jill's somewhat un complimentary comments about the Nethercourt electorate whilst having her hair done in Brenda's salon didn't advance her cause much. People also tend to be a little selfish; Nethercourt residents - largely owner/occupiers and either retired or employed - are rightly concerned about the effect on property prices on the estate if the airport gets its way. Asking them to sacrifice their investment for the benefit of people with whom they have little in common is hardly going to be popular. As I have already said you will have to win Nethercourt back if you want to retake control of the Council; the present strategy is not doing you any favours.

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    1. Inall honesty I have never heard that story, and do not know how to respond, as hanging around hairdressers for gossip is not a speciality of mine!!!

      Yes, residents may be rightly concerned, as we all are when facing such difficulties; but surely one thing decent politicians should do is show leadership, and get people to understand what greater good may be available.

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    2. It isn't just Nethercourt you have to win. The only reason Labour was able to dominate in Ramsgate is because they realised the depth of feeling about night-flights and were sufficiently robust in their wording to persuade many of the people who don't want night-flights to vote for them. The Tories let themselves down because, when they were in office, their approach to the campaigners was arrogant and overbearing. Tory supporters repeatedly accused anti-night-flight campaigners of being NIMBYs and of being against the airport and against jobs. It was exactly this kind of intemperate language which alienated most local people from the previous Labour administration.

      I would draw a parallel with the Tory party's treatement of UKIP. The use of abusive and intemperate language to describe UKIP supporters has backfired spectacularly.

      The bottom line is that many of the people who are against night-flights are not against the airport and they resent it when politicians and their henchmen misrepresent their position and lie about them.

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    3. Chris
      You'll have to take my word for it but my source is unimpeachable. I have known Brenda for years.

      6:23.
      I have tried, and tried, and tried to get local Tory councillors to listen and they just don't seem to want to. As you say, Nethercourt is not against Manston, just against night flights and certainly resent being called NIMBYs by the TGINIMBYs. Interesting that Laura Sandys has a more conciliatory approach; maybe the local mob ought to seek her advice otherwise they are in for a few more years in opposition. There are few marginal wards in Thanet - Nethercourt is, at the moment, one of them. Should not Cllr Bayford and others ask themselves how a long-serving Councillor like Jill Kirby was so unceremoniously dumped in favour of a London cabbie from a ward that was usually a fairly safe bet for the Conservatives? And having asked themselves the question, then they need to formulate an answer

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    4. Where is Nethercourt? I've never heard of it.

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    5. Allan MallinsonMay 13, 2013 7:33 pm

      Tim, the entrenched position of the Labour folk in Nethercourt didn't help much in the recent county council elections and they even lost a safe Labour seat on the RTC. Seems nothing is certasin at the moment except Cameron's a wally but probably marginally less of one than Milliband. Farage, on the other hand, is a good bloke with a pint in his hand. Bet if Farage said he supported night flights UKIP would still have won in Ramsgate.

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  15. Why is it that so many old people are jealous when young people are successful?

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  16. No idea Will, you tell us. Or was that Jodie?

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    1. The people of Nethercourt should think about what's good for ALL of Thanet / East Kent rather than just a few streets. Once again it's NIMBYism that's discouraging people from investing in the area!

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    2. Anon 12:57,

      I should be grateful if you could expand upon your question and provide some examples that led you to ask it.

      In the meantime you may wish to bear in mind that old people were once successful young people.

      For my part: when I was young I was certain about the way the world should be. Today I am no longer certain about the way the world should be, but I'm certain of the way it is.

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    3. I doubt if Simon, Chris etc were as successful at 25 as Will is now... nor did they have a woman like Jodie! ; )

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    4. Peter,

      What you say is interesting. How do you personally measure success, and in what way would you describe Will as successful?

      I would describe Will as more used than successful. I get the impression that he is dancing to the tune of his elders.

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    5. I personally measure success by the woman on a man's arm.

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    6. I'd say judging success purely on financial wealth is more shallow, but each to their own.

      Delete
    7. Peter. I've just read your earlier reply and I'm not sure that you inhabit the same sort of world that I do. Why should one group of people be asked to take a sizeable financial hit for the, I'm afraid, vague possibility that the greatest good will come of it? What will really happen is that endless cargo planes will trundle in all night, employing a few extra air traffic controllers (how many unemployed ATCs are there in Thanet I wonder)and at best a half dozen fork lift drivers. The lorry drivers will come from outside the area. We cann guess on previous experience that passenger flights are doomed - KLM are only half full on their busiest flights. I also note that the most vociferous supporters of night flights come from the TGINIMBY fraternity - Thank God It's Not In My Back Yard.
      Anyway, them point was not whether they were right but whether Tory strategy ought to be aimed more at addressing their concerns. People do not generally react well to being told to do something that is of no obvious benefit to themselves so as to advantage others.

      Delete
    8. It's not just NIMBYism that's damaging, it's also pessimism!

      Delete
    9. Talking of "shallow"... I actually think that part of Will's recent success is down to his looks: he's always smiling in photos, and looks friendly and approachable, the complete opposite to Chris (who I'm sure is a very nice chap)... it's also probably part of the reason Ian Driver failed, as he looks like an ageing thug (and to the vast majority of locals that thick Yorkshire accent is extremely irritating). This shouldn't be important of course, but unfortunately it is (I also believe that Ian Duncan-Smith would make a far better PM than Cameron, but with his looks and lack of charisma he'd never win in these image-concious times!).

      Delete
    10. In reality he isn't, Peter, for he was on a stand in Broadstairs High Street some time back and I tackled about Labour's opposition then to the Broadstairs community centre. His reaction was at best condescending, although I clearly knew far more of the history of the project and he, and at worst downright rude. I left with the impression that this was an arrogant young man steeped in socialist bigotry.

      Delete
    11. The fact that you had to mention his age in your post tells me that you probably talked down to or patrinized him...

      I've just been reading some of the comments on old Simon's blog. One of these days the "humour" on there will be seen as offensive in retrospect as those jokes on "woofters" and "wogs" from 40 years ago!

      Delete
    12. Peter your 3:38pm,

      The women on your arm are naked. I conclude that your own success leaves you without the means to cloth them.

      Delete
    13. Peter your 5:20 pm

      I have read with interest your comment on how you personally measure success. Looks will always trump intellect, in your view. I find this curious. Are you making an observation or stating your own preference?

      Delete
    14. Either that or I'm successful at getting them to remove their clothes! ; )

      Delete
    15. Not really "looks" as much as "image", and it's an observation rather than a personal preference (as I think I stated clearly). If Ian Driver had the same policies but looked and sounded like Will then would he have done better? I think so.

      Delete
    16. Actually I've just realised that "I personally measure success by the woman on a man's arm" is so incredibly sexist that even I, who normally has no time for the nonsense PC stuff, am appalled. Under that mock-hippy exterior there lurks a MCP.

      Delete
    17. Ok, in your case "the man on a man's arm". Happy now?

      Delete
    18. Sexist or not there is some merit in the statement. I recall a emerald mine owner who was of advanced years, but was always to be seen around town with the most attractive young females on his arm, albeit bedecked with emerald jewellery, whilst us more modest blokes supped our pints and called him a lucky rich bastard.

      Delete
  17. Define success for me then Peter..at 25 I was married to a beautiful lady who I am proud to say is still my beloved wife; had two young children; and entered a short service commission in the Royal Navy, pledged to defending my country. The difference being my father was not an Admiral who opened the doors for me en route!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Having an influential father can be a hinderance sometimes. When I was 18 I started working as a scaffolder's labourer for a firm where my dad was a manager, and he made sure that I always got the toughest and dirtiest jobs (in his words "to make it known that I'm not showing any favouritism"). After about a year I left to work for another firm for an easier life!

      But back on topic, I'm sure that all most voters care about is how well politicians do their job, not whether they've been in the navy or spent a few years labouring on building sites.

      Delete
    2. Chris. It was that sort of comment that caused Simon eventually to ban Peter from Thanet Life

      Delete
    3. No Tim, I was banned because I made Simon look like the fool that he is too many times, but believe what you want! Anyway I'm off out cycling as I don't want to end up looking like you lot, bye-ee!

      Delete
    4. Peter, in fact he was with Cllr Jenny Matterface at the time and she tried to explain the council's position politely and made a case to justify it. Will kept butting in arrogantly although, far well less informed on a Broadstairs issue than her, in a dismissive and arrogant way. He would never get my vote but Cllr Matterface might.

      Delete
    5. I've met her a couple of times and I like her.

      Delete
    6. No views on the Scobie bit then? Oh no, of course, he's young therefore we older folks had best not criticise him

      Delete
    7. He has a lovely woman on his arm, so he gets my respect (lucky b*st*rd!).

      Delete
    8. Your taste is evidently different to mine. At Will's age I could still pull women my own age and without kids.

      Delete
    9. So you believe that a woman having kids is somehow an inferior person? Wow.

      Delete
    10. No, but not something I would have chosen to take on at Will's age. Perhaps the give away is that someone of your age finds her so attractive.

      Delete
    11. I find ALL women attractive in one way or another! As Jerry Lee Lewis said, "If God made anything better than a woman then he kept it for himself!".

      Delete
    12. Don't we all as we age, but at 23 I was a bit more discerning. By the way Jerry Lee Lewis was surely into fifteen year olds so hardly a good choice to quote from. You'll be using the sayings of Jimmy Saville next.

      Delete
    13. He also married a woman pushing 60 last year, but yes at 23 he preferred 15 year olds (I was the complete opposite, preferring women in their 40s or 50s even then).

      Delete
    14. So he is still cradle snatching relatively then, Peter.

      Delete
  18. Allan MallinsonMay 13, 2013 7:27 pm

    Think about it and imagine you have been with a company for fifteen years, have worked your way up to middle management level and have high hopes of getting a senior management position that is shortly going to be available. Suddenly a young man, barely out of fulltime education and with no experience of the business of the firm, is given the job ahead of you. His claim to fame, why his old dad is a member of the board. One would reasonably feel a bit p****d off and I am sure there are Labour activists and councillors, who have given years of service to the party and who would dearly love to go onto county level, who feel likewise.

    But then what about poor old Mark Nottingham who worked diligently, had a good internet presence (something much applauded in politicians by Michael) and even worked for the party in his day job. He got shafted and cast aside so Ian Driver could take his seat. That was a smart move by Labour and now they have lost a safe Labour seat in Northwood to UKIP on the RTC. Let's hope the Will Scobie move works better for them but don't be surprised if it puts a few Labour noses out of joint.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. People weren't forced to vote for him, were they?

      Delete
    2. Allan MallinsonMay 13, 2013 7:44 pm

      Still doesn't make it right, Peter, and changes nothing about putting other good Labour people's noses out of joint.

      Delete
    3. There were plenty of older Labour candidates elsewhere in Thanet for people to vote for... if they'd have wanted to.

      Delete
    4. Peter 7:37 pm,

      That was a glib reply, Peter, but I suppose you were just attempting to avoid argument. Picking up on your point: people weren't forced to vote for Hitler, but they did and put him into power as a consequence.

      Delete
    5. There's probably several local councillors comparible to Hitler, but I don't think Will Scobie is one of them (even if he grew a little moustache!).

      Delete
    6. Peter your 10:09,

      That was not the point I was making and you know it.

      I take your glib response to indicate your reluctance to debate the matter seriously. That's fine by me. I understand. I always try never to take myself too seriously.

      Delete
    7. There's nothing to debate. He won, the older Labour (and Tory and SDP and Independent) local candidates lost. End of.

      Delete
    8. Peter,

      If in your opinion there is nothing to debate then so be it.

      Delete
  19. In case you wondered where the Aquifer Man, alias 0% salaries and China Gate Bungs, has gone, rumour has it that he has gone into respite care whilst his regular carer is on holiday and the home will not let the bigotted old fool anywhere near a computer as he hogs it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No I didn't wonder, but you clearly seem to be missing him...

      Delete
    2. anon 8:45 am,

      I suspect that the Aquifer Man has become a franchise.

      Delete
    3. No more than I am missing Jerry Lee Lewis, Peter.

      Delete
  20. So "wogs" and "woofters" is offensive Peter (I might add that it is offensive in my view as well, before the Diversity Champion sends the shock troops round) but suggesting that Jodie is just arm candy isn't. What a strange person you are.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Where did I say that she is JUST arm candy? She's obviously a very capable councillor in her own right, as well as a fine mayoress.

      Delete
  21. To put the record straight I banned Peter because I find many of his comments offensive, his intellect shallow and boasts about his talents with young, vulnerable naked women sad Thanet's blogs would, I'm sure be much improved in the eyes of many without his constant trolling and facetious remarks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Erm, who's the one who got in trouble with his bosses for making offensive comments on his blog?

      ... As I said, despite my "shallow intellect", you don't like the fact that it's YOU who always ends up looking foolish! : )

      As for "young, vulnerable", that's strange, because the biggest criticism of my art seems to be that my models are (supposedly) "too old" (indeed I rarely ever photograph anyone under 25), but then again you do seem slightly obsessed with local youth!

      Delete
    2. You also publicly criticised me for asking Tony Flaig if I can do an artistic nude shoot of his wife, whom I doubt very much can be considered "young, vulnerable", lovely though she no doubt is!

      Delete
    3. Peter, just ignore him. He doesn't like to see anyone both successful and enjoying life.

      Delete
    4. Allan MallinsonMay 14, 2013 12:33 pm

      Is Peter successful and how do you know he is enjoying life, Anon 12:15, or is it, as I suspect you are simply anti-Simon Moores.

      To me, Peter, comes over as bitter about some issues, mixed up on others and constantly harping on his career highlight as a doorman at the Winter Garden where some local politicians were pleasant to him and others offhand.

      He judges the suitability of political aspirants by his perception of the attractiveness of the woman on their arm as though women are just objects to be eyeballed. He lauds the attributes of a young man who, apart from university, where he achieved the average 2:1, was placed into a safe Labour ward for the 2011 election, thanks to daddy, again was fast tracked into the Margate mayor role, despite there being many long serving and more deserrving candidates and now given one of Labour's target county council seats. Is this on ability and how many other young people have been so fortunate at the hands of our local political parties. Far from based on his attributes, I would suggest that without daddy he would, like most other graduates be out there job hunting. Why Labour even adopted his girlfriend as a candidate. Nepotism does seldom come more obviously.

      That said, good luck to the young man for he will not be the first to be propelled up the ladder by a well positioned father. Let's just hope he appreciates and make the most this opportunity.

      Delete
    5. My career highlight is the job I have now... and again, where have I said that women are JUST to be eyeballed? If you read above you'll see that I also praised her as a both a cllr & mayoress. Time to buy some new glasses grandad!

      Delete
    6. Peter your 12:45pm,

      You have just applied the word "granddad" as an epithet. I find this curious. For it is redolent of an anonymous contributor to this blog. Could you possibly be... no surely not?... surely not. It's just a coincidence; but it speaks none the less for that.


      Delete
  22. Allan MallinsonMay 14, 2013 2:21 pm

    Peter, the ageism is uncalled for and is no more justified than a sexist attitude. Your earlier comment was 'he has a lovely woman on his arm so gets my respect' which certainly smacks of judging him on the attractiveness of his partner. It also, conversely implies, that a man with an unattractive partner would not get your respect or be suitable for political office.

    As for age, Peter, careful for you are over 50, it accelerates downhill rapidily from here on and are those Specsavers shades in your mugshot? Before you know it you will be on the Viagra and statins.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've been four-eyed since I was a teen!

      Delete
    2. Allan MallinsonMay 14, 2013 3:02 pm

      Then surely you should be more aware than most about making sarcastic comments about grandads needing glasses. I am not anti you, Peter, and sometimes I agree with what you say. It is just your dismissive approach at times and the fact you ignore the main thread of a debate. Bit like when I pointed out Will's obnoxious attitude in Broadstairs High Street compared with the much more polite and informative response I got from Cllr Matterface. You responded that you had met her and liked her but ignored the criticism of Cllr Scobie.

      Delete
    3. Again, read the comments! I answered regarding Scobie before Whatsherface.

      Delete
    4. And thanks for comfirming that at least two of the anonymous comments on here are by yourself.

      Delete
    5. Allan MallinsonMay 14, 2013 4:38 pm

      You did not answer it, Peter, but implied I must have been condescending to him which is why I went on to explain that Cllr Matterface was also there and with a much better PR approach to a member of the public. The young man came over as a bit up himself in fact, whereas I am by nature and upbringing polite in such circumstances.

      As for my anonymous comments, put it down to idleness and the fact that sometimes I get brassed off with being insulted by name by that rude bloke who is always prattling on about the aquifer.

      No offence intended towards you and just trying to have a sensible debate.

      Delete
  23. Same old, same old. Fresh blood needed here, methinks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How about spilling some of yours then, 5:37? A few pearls of wisdom, your thoughts on the thread or even an intelligent one liner rather than this old dross would do nicely.

      Delete
  24. Of course, another reason why Will Scobiewon (and Michael has already touched on this) is probably at least partly due to the excellent free publicity courtesy of Simon Moores and (to a lesser degree) Chris Wells; in effect doing the same for Will Scobie as Tongue and Worrow did for Roger Latchford! That's the trouble with these "anti" campaigns, they just preach to the converted, whereas "floating" voters may actually think "Hang on, that Roger / Will chap doesn't seem that bad to me!". My advice in ANY election is don't tell me why the other guy is so bad, but instead tell me why YOU are so great!

    ...and if I'd written the above on Old Moores' blog I'd be accused of trolling or lacking intelligence! : )

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Allan MallinsonMay 15, 2013 11:33 am

      Peter, on your theory of free publicity Ian Driver should have walked it being attacked from all sides by individuals as well as his opponent candidates. In fact his result was pathetic so it would seem evident that not all adverse publicity is beneficial.

      I think Will's success is much more down to the positive promotion by the Labour group for the last two years, his stint as mayor giving many photo opportunites and his youth appeal to the younger voters. I know you love to blame everything on Simon, but my own view is that adverse comment has very little effect either way.

      Delete
  25. Replies
    1. Simon, how about doing what I pay you for and doing some work instead of posting rude comments on blogs?

      Delete
    2. Allan MallinsonMay 15, 2013 12:39 pm

      Peter, I do not think a District Councillors allowance amounts to pay and does little more than cover the extra costs involved in being one after tax. I think you will find that Simon flies aircraft and has sundry other business interests from which he earns a living. At least he tries to engage with the public, something much applauded by Michael who is always lamenting that more councillors don't on line, so give some credit where due. Or are you totally obsessed with inexperienced boy wonders with what you perceive as attractive girlfriends?

      Delete
    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
  26. If I'm obsessed with "inexperienced boy wonders" then you're sticking up for a "past it old man"...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Allan MallinsonMay 15, 2013 3:56 pm

      Is Simon older than you, Peter? Seems to be doing a lot more with his life and getting about more than your local whizz kid. I still think there is merit in experience, but all I asked was you give credit where it is due and knocked your rather silly assertion that a district councillors allowance somehow equates to a wage. For the hours involved, particularly on individual casework, it does even amount to minimum wage level. You need the perks like mayor and county councillor's allowance and expenses to bring it up to a wage.

      Delete
    2. You really don't get it do you?

      If someone in their mid 20s is a youngster in shorts (as some locals are portraying him), then surely a man in his 50s is a coffin-dodger! Of course, BOTH accusations are ludicrous in reality.

      Delete
    3. Allan MallinsonMay 15, 2013 4:38 pm

      They were his shorts he described as his favoured wear for God's sake, Peter. When some already regard you as too young for your role why feed them ammunition. Anyway, clearly you see some merit in very young politicians whereas I prefer those that have been around long enough to know something of the problems we who elect them face in life. Guess we shall just have to beg to differ.

      Delete
    4. If only we had more like Sandy Ezekiel and Ted-Watt Ruffell, eh? They could show these youngsters a thing or two!

      Delete
    5. Allan MallinsonMay 15, 2013 4:54 pm

      Silly reply, Peter, and quite irrelevant. Actually Ezekiel was a far more effective council leader than either of the two that have followed him, but he committed an act of misconduct in a public office for which he is paying the price. I did not know Ted Watt-Ruffell, but I understand he was a decent and committed councillor and mayor before his act of negligence with a cat. Are any of us perfect?

      Anyway, Will doesn't need old Tories to show him the ropes because he has got his dad and old socialist like Clive and Allan to do it, not to mention of course, dear old Mike Harrison who has been Labour since Pontias Pilate was mayor of Jeruselem.

      Delete
  27. I understand that Defamation Act 2013 has recently completed its passage through Parliament. Among other things the legislation will include a new process enabling website operators to help people complaining about online statements to resolve this direct with the poster of the material.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Might be difficult with the anons...

      Delete
    2. Allan MallinsonMay 15, 2013 4:43 pm

      What is opinion and what is defamation, John? I suppose if we take the Peter example and I say in my opinion taking pictures of nude ladies is a strange way to earn a living that would be OK, but if I say he is a perv for doing it, then that would be defamtion. No offence intended, Peter, so don't phone your brief.

      Seems to me that there is a line somewhere, but I am not sure where it is.

      Delete
    3. I don't have a phone in my briefs, contrary to what it may look like! ; )

      Delete
    4. Peter 4:32 pm,

      Agreed, difficult but not impossible.

      Delete

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