First here is the link to the whole document http://democracy.thanet.gov.uk/documents/s33886/Independent%20Members%20Report%20on%20Standards.html?CT=2
which seems to be saying that things are pretty bad at Thanet district Council.
Pretty strong stuff and from the Conservative Group press
release we seem to have partial confirmation that it is justified http://www.souththanetconservatives.org.uk/news/statement-tdc-conservative-group-%E2%80%93-standards-report
I have to admit to being disappointed by our council, the
only experience I have of councils relates to the towns that my family have had
bookshops in, Stevenage, Hitchin, Welwyn Garden City, well the list goes on a
bit but you get the idea.
Other councils I have dealt with because of this seemed to
be most focused on making their own area of the country as successful as they possibly
could, trading here in Ramsgate I have found things rather different.
My latest issue is having to put out the rubbish in King Street Ramsgate by 6 am on market day and not having it collected until mid afternoon. I am trying to trade in the town centre and the picture shows the access along the street to my shop from the other shops.
Weeks months or even years of argument are not only inappropriate
but give the impression that the council has no remit to do what is best for
the area, but has a mandate to wreck it.
I guess my first significant encounter with the council was
over the Pleasurama height issue, where I thought pointing out to the council
that the development that was due to come before council had a planning error
that made it too high to fit in the space available was doing them some sort of
favour. Saving them and the developer an ongoing and expensive mess.
With this sort of thing what you expect is that someone down
at the council will look at the thing and either say: “Whoops we will sort it
out.” Or: “Michael you have made a mistake.” Not all the ludicrous bull that I actually
got.
My latest issue is having to put out the rubbish in King Street Ramsgate by 6 am on market day and not having it collected until mid afternoon. I am trying to trade in the town centre and the picture shows the access along the street to my shop from the other shops.
The point I am making here is that these a common sense
issues, something that ought to just need explaining to either your councillor
of the appropriate officer once for action to be taken and a solution found.
AT LAST!
ReplyDeleteIf ECR's guesses are true then heads will roll at Cecil Square, Maybe common sense and honesty can soon prevail?
Bye-Bye Moores!
DeleteAnon I think ECR was saying that he has heard Harvey is possibly leaving. How do you turn that round to bye-bye Moores, referring to one of the very few district councillors who is prepared to share his views with the public. You might not agree with him, but he is an active ward councillor and hardly has vested interests. TDC do not have too much use for light aircraft pilots in their business placing.
DeleteAgree with William. Simon may be a 'Marmite councillor' but he has tirelessly and consistently discussed his opinions online. In my book, Simon is one of the good ones. Lets hope the bad ones - on all sides of the house - decide that enough is enough and allow others to step into their shoes.
DeletePeter, not sure of your sources, but aren't you guilty of letting your own dislike colour your judgement. I am a Conservative councillor mixing with other such councillors both at town and district level and my experience is that Simon Moores is highly regarded in the party.
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DeleteHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA "a respected local campaigner", JAMES, a proven liar and bullshitter, forced to remove lies from a public forum, who thinks dogshit on the pavement is somehow TDC's fault HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
DeleteJames has all the credibility of Driver claiming to be the most loyal politician in Thanet!
Presumably Peter those alleged Conservative councillors must tell you something different to what they tell me yet I am their colleague and co party member. Strange that don't you think? Also what is this, I might be wrong stuff, but Simon may have visited his old pal Sandy, if not pure mischief making. You know something, if it's true of course, but I would have more respect for a man that stood by a friend in his hour of need than some sneaky little shite who is trying to make some sort of character slur out of it.
DeleteNearly everything you write on political issues is distorted by your hatred of Simon Moores for banning you from Thanet Life.
Being one of drivers minions, sadly cheggers has no understanding of the word "loyalty" William, seems like your comments show you have the measure of cheggers nicely. I would only add that he's a duplicitous little shite, other than that, you got him 100% correct.
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DeletePeter, your statement might well have been obviously ironic to you, but to many people, not so intimately involved with councillors over a few drinks, it could be taken literally. The new resident in Westcliff, Ramsgate who you were telling the other day about criminal Tories, for example, would not know the Simon/Sandy history. No, Peter, you are a shit stirrer of the first order and if you can get a dig at Simon Moores you do so at every opportunity.
DeleteOn the sneaky little shite bit Peter, I am accusing you openly on here and would happily do so to your face should the opportunity arise, but you malign people who are not always able to defend themselves. That is sneaky.
i expected you to bullshit, if not openly lie, as we know, your not beyond outright lies cheggers ;)
DeletePeter called Simon a hardworking councillor and still got lambasted, yet William would never give that much praise to Ian Driver. A little hypocrisy methinks!
DeleteAnon, I find your definition of hypocrisy rather strange. How can there be any relationship between what Peter calls one person and what I do not call another. You obviously have a warped understanding of the word. For the record, I have said of Ian Driver that he says what he thinks openly and does not hide away. Whatever my views on his politics and behaviour, the man does have the courage of his convictions.
DeleteAnon, I pointed out to you the limited remit and responsibility of a town councillor and that there is a protocol over who deals with what. I sit in a council which includes district councillors and I know others through the political network. I can ask them about district issues but it is not my role to report on them on a public forum. As I have repeatedly advised you, use your own district councillor if you require answers on district matters.
DeleteThanks for the lazy pensioner bit, but knowing who you are I can safely say I worked gainfully for many more years that you have done and I was a lot fitter than you at your age. Now get back to your silly twittering.
Peter I was at the Council meeting were the issue was allegedly discussed however when we got to that point in the meeting Ian Driver hijacked the discussion causing the others to "circle the wagons" and nod thru Labours position. Simon Moores stated on his blog he had a speech prepared but didn't get a chance to speak.
ReplyDeleteWilliam apologies for not debating your point on ThanetLife I got sidetracked.
Michael I was extremely pleased to see this independent report which states in very clear terms that TDC has lost the trust of the people of Thanet. The problem is that cllrs I speak to are of the mind that it is all the fault of a rogue element within Council rather than an endemic issue within Party Politics.
ReplyDeleteIf they use it as a stick to beat the people who voice the problems as is likely they will be perpetuating the problem not winning back the trust of the people.
Some of us have Civic Pride in our area and want the best for it but it seems sometimes TDC want their vested interests served first,
Peter this a quote from March 2009: Cllr. Bob Bayford, Chairman of the Overview and Scrutiny Panel, said: “The sentiment of the panel was very much that we’d all be only too pleased to share what we do with our residents, but the cost of the proposed options is just too high right now, especially with the possibility that the council chamber may be moving in the future. One thing I’d like to make clear is that broadcasting council meetings won’t add to scrutiny of what members do, as this panel already does that job. All that broadcasting meetings will do is allow people to observe meetings.”
ReplyDeleteAnd as you may well know I have be onto this issue for some time, the problem has always been the officers want to use an expensive hosting method instead of YouTube which even the Turner Contemporary uses for live webcasts.
“Members heard that both options would have significant costs, with live broadcasting likely to cost around £6,000 per month, with set-up costs of around £17,000. Enquiries showed that the on demand option is likely to cost around £17,000 per year and there is no budget for the project for 2009/10.”
So not free like it is when the rest of us do it.
Not really Peter, if I remember rightly he was fairly supportive of bunging them on YouTube but not of putting them online at any cost. Other councils do manage to use youtube to host their council meeting vids, I had a long series of emails about the issue with officers.
ReplyDeleteIt went something like this, M “why don’t you bung them on youtube for free?” C “they are too long” M “youtube dropped their size limit ages ago” C “we won’t do it for copyright reasons” M “ anyone with half a brain can download the video file from your website so hosting them expansively rather than for nothing doesn’t achieve anything”
As I said in the post, sic; they have an endless amount of our money to waste not doing what we want.
I see that the Labour Group has decided what we should be focusing our minds on?
ReplyDeleteIf the Local Conservatives are actively pursuing fairness over the Pavillion disposal, and are going to push for live streaming of TDC meetings, then I guess those of us that feel strongly about these two issues could always join our local Conservative Associations en masse?
Mr Bayford and his team felt that it was wrong to debate gay marriage locally, and it was a position I supported. Labour went ahead anyway, even though no reprsentative from any political group took soundings from the local lgbt forum. Cllr Wells did at least have a discussion with me some months later about it amongst other things. D**K H**D
DeletePeter there are some people working behind the scenes to get the Tories to be an "effective" opposition. We think that National Issues have a place in local politics but not to the detriment of local issues.
DeleteGetting the Leader of the opposition to take a position at all is hard work. It used to be the norm for them to come on here and make their position know but in the last 3 months NOTHING, unless some are posting as anons.
Over the filming issue my understanding there was going to be a tory position but the debate was foreshortened due to the wagon circling in chamber. Please lets not have this debate stifled before it gets started
Peter,
DeleteI am not easily fooled, and I am not some gay tortured over gay marriage as you implied - hence dick head!
John Worrow was being exploited at that time just as much as he was seeking to exploit others to get on. The Conservative group has at least identified where my concerns lay in recent days. If more of us joined at the same time we could be an influential group within their association.
then there is no difference between us then, but your tone leaves a lot to be desired.
DeleteI also think the important thing is to be Proud to live here but that needs to permeate at all levels from our Civic Leaders setting an example and local people getting behind first off getting the place cleaned up. Personally allowing Pleasurama and the pavilion to go on so long is nothing short of a scandal.
DeleteI am sure there are examples all over the Island and people are so fed up with this inactivity that it will boil over into action
I can see your point Peter, but I actually salute the Tories for speaking out. And lets not forget that they also stated that they agree that the council is dysfunctional. THAT was a big statement and one that anyone that follows the local scene would have to agree with. It's a shame that the current administration havent commented on the report. They all seem to be burying their heads in the sand
DeleteI am with, Duncan, for acknowledging failings is the first step necessary to tackling them. The failure of the present administration to even comment on this report is indeed worrying as it certainly seems that they remain in denial.
DeleteSeems labours response on BBCSE last night was "Council is fit for purpose, it is all down to one or two errants" Now that is ostrich like in the extreme.
DeleteTwo errants incidentally, Barry, that combined to put and keep them in office.
DeleteWilliam I understand one and he failed to turn up at planning last night without an excuse but the other mmmm?
DeleteWilliam as a member of the public and having never been a politician I am gravelly concerned that politicians are only seeing it from a political perspective whereas it is the publics perception that the report highlights
You persist with this strange notion that 'politicians' are somehow different to the public. Most of us at local level have spent far more time as members of the public than as councillors and we do not change over night on getting elected. Indeed, I would say that most of us stand in the first place to try to put something back and make a difference.
DeleteI doubt, in truth, my perception of TDC is any different to my neighbours and I am as aware of its failings as the next man. I do, however, know a number of district councillors and that they are people just like the rest of us trying to do their best. Mind you, I would agree that it is frequently the over politicised ones that become the bad apples in the barrel. This so called public perception, one probably only perceived by a handful around the blog sites, is not so jaundiced as you like to make out for many people know and often like their local councillors. We are not Zybermen or Daleks.
Your mmmm is presumably a question, so think of the one who was elected as Labour, left them, then sold his vote back for a lucrative chairman's allowance and has proceeded to disrupt more than contribute ever since. That is a personal, not a political view for I could not keep pace with his changes in political allegiance otherwise, who knows for next week I could in theory be on the same side.
William I didn't write that report but I wonder if we read it the same way. The MMM was for the belief that he keeps them in power that isn't my understanding.
DeleteWhat I see from commentary from politicians since last friday is the problems are only caused by 1 or 2 people when the reality from the public (and I talk Facebook here) is the problems are endemic in TDC, that is both officers and politicians, and confidence is at a very low point.
Barry, elsewhere you question my understanding and now my reading ability. I was responding to your earlier comment over this perceived gulf between public and politicians which, whilst possibly valid when describing the career types at Westminster, hardly is relevant to most of us locals.
DeleteAs for the mmm, well again this was about the two errants where, seemingly, you could only identify one. I will not labour this as our views on the certain individual are oceans apart, but suffice to say that without the support of the dynamic duo, Labour would never have gained office in the first place.
We keep talking about the council but the real problem lies with individuals. It is individual council officers who are arrogant and overbearing and who make colossal mistakes . It is individual councillors who refuse to listen to local people, are only interested in getting one over on the other party and who fail to hold the officers or each other to account. It wouldn't be as bad if we were just talking about a few bad apples, but I'm afraid that with TDC, you are struggling to find a good apple in the whole festering barrel. You can't even begin to address the problem until you accept that we need to clear out virtually all of the councillors and officers and start again. The problem is that it is the councillors themselves who will decide what is to be done. In accordance with the old adage that "Turkeys don't vote for Christmas" I predict that things are set to get a lot,lot worse before they get any better.
ReplyDeleteExcept he would be debarred from taking up office on the grounds of diminished responsibility.
DeleteHave the councillors been buying new fancy dress robes and wigs? There seemed a range of new ceremonial clothing on display?
DeleteWe all remember and Michael certainly will, when the council decided that us the people should have no say in whether an elected mayor was the way forward for Thanet. Another example of the council treating electors with contempt.
ReplyDeleteI do think 'desperation' takes the decision a little too far or in Peter's too often fevered imagination, off to a political wonderland where Ian Driver acts the part of the mad hatter and John Worrow.. well I'm sure someone else can think of a suitable part.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, if you know me, Bob Bayford or Chris Wells, Alasdair Bruce, Martin Wise and Julie Marson, my shadow cabinet colleagues, then you might just possibly imagine that we think things through quite carefully, whether you agree with them or not and 'desperate' really doesn't fit the decision process for this or anything else. Common sense is a much stronger currency but given the very sorry state of the present administration at TDC, its frequently in short supply these days.
Talking to members of the public the main issues seem to be lack of communication (open & transparent) from Cabinet and lack of feedback from officers e.g. ring up to complain and no one feeds back what TDC are doing about issue. It makes people give up trying.
DeleteWe need to work together to re-inspire some pride in Thanet
In a small microcosm we have what happens in the chamber. Personal animosity Rules.
DeletePeter & Simon you may both be right but can you not find common ground to work together?
Now that's an interesting question peter there are a couple of problems firstly I couldn't afford the airfare and secondly he has also said he wouldn't be interested with anyone. (mind you that is hardly surprising)
DeleteThere's an interesting question.
DeleteNow I can work with anyone, even if i don't like them, so long as they are honest, not hypocritical, doesn't lie or bullshit, is honest and intelligent and not duplicitous.
So sadly that's cheggers, James and Driver all excluded.
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DeleteExcellent, off you go cheggers, perhaps you'd like to keep peddling and do Thanet a favour by not stopping for several 100 miles, you maybe useful, needed and important somewhere, but Thanet ain't it ;)
DeleteAs for photography locations, do the art a favour, and drop your camera's off at a cash converters so someone talented can make use of them, you having them is like giving a Ferrari to Steven Hawking. :)
Just about every third comment is some mindless bile from Checksfield yet he has the audacity to accuse others of us of being obsessed. A very bitter individual, haunted by his own life failures who hates to see success in others. Hence he despises a man running a good business like Simon Moores yet champions a total loser like Tim Garbutt. Perhaps a former doorman and a director of a non existent company have much in common.
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DeleteOh dear, you think that your "honesty" has any credibility, sadly that boast sailed sometime ago.
DeleteCaught lying again Hammy?
DeleteNo anon, that would be cheggers/james/driver etc etc etc.;)
DeleteIt is amazing how many people often state they would welcome politicians putting the past behind them and working together for the common good. Just reading through these comments from some of the 'interested public' makes one realise just how hard that request may be. It is clear from the above how difficult commenters here find leaving the past behind, and classily embedded into point scoring not positive steps forward. Would you gentlemen like to try and show us how to focus on the future not the past? You all seem to find it very difficult indeed!
DeleteI simply don't suffer fools and liars Chris, hence the likes of Driver & Worrow have no place in public life, and those who simply lie, snipe, bullshit, hinder and whine as a fulltime hobby, such as James, Oldfield, cheggers etc should be brushed aside, and progress made inspite of their incessant bleating about EVERYTHING from the port to rubbish collection!
DeleteChris you know the reality of Public life is that you leave yourself open to 20/20 hindsight. Mistakes have been made in the recent past but the issue for party spin doctors is always to muddy the waters and put a gloss on it. This happens at National as well as at a local level.
DeleteThe vast majority of people out there in election land would like to see more "mea culpa" "we got it wrong" and "we have learnt from this" However what happens is FOI's are blocked, letters are buried, and when the truth finally gets out the public say "same old, same old".
In todays internet age and fast moving data streams the truth can only be hidden for so long so why bury it at all.
Both parties are guilty of mistakes and people can be forgiving but not if the are ignored, blocked and basically fobbed off with smokescreens.
The Report from these independent lay people to Standards highlight a massive lack of confidence in the Council and yet what happens in Council speak is "It is unfair to blame all councillors as being the same" This is the publics perception of what Councillors are like and also of how the Council works.
It is time that the leadership of the Council actually led, All Councillors need to engage with the electorate and communicate. An expression I hear more and more is "Lions led by Donkeys" Things must change but also they need to be seen to change, 2015 is coming fast.
Sadly James, peons like yourself abusing the system and whining about EVERYTHING mean that the system becomes unworkable for normal people with run of the mill genuine complaints. Thanet has suffered badly because of bullshitters with their own agendas such as you.
DeleteChris it is said that 2015 should have an influx of "new blood" coming forward however the is likely to be a groundswell of voters who will say "none of the above". In Thanet we need people to stand for election who have a love of Thanet not those that have only ever stood waiting for a bus with their mommies ready to go shopping.
DeleteYou seem to think you represent something James, why don't you stand, so that your bullshit can have a wider audience? Do you think you will gain more votes that your hero driver at the KCC election? I wonder if 96% of the electorate will give you a resounding FU as they did him...
DeleteSadly on here and elsewhere the "one trick pony argument" seems to be the "only game in town".
DeleteStanding for what many of us believe in, that is a love of Thanet and Pride in the people is sadly drowned out by agendas that advocate Anarchy in planning laws with a belief that money is the only route to success.
Politics today is a "game" played by people who should know better, however it seems on Thanetlife at least one person has woken up to what has been said around the chattering classes for some time.
What should be advocated, at least in the short term, is a laying aside the pettiness that has blighted politics on the Isle for so long and a forging together of a stronger political alliance working together for the people of Thanet without hypocrisy and back stabbing.
As I have said elsewhere the people should take an interest in the workings at TDC but they should also learn that democracy is a two way street. Keeping your head down is no longer an option
So you prepared to humiliate yourself in 2015, and stand for election James? Why not really test the support you think you have...
DeleteThose that advocate others stand instead of themselves are somewhat hypocritical. As has been said the only place you have ever stood is in the queue for the bus holding your mommies hand.
DeleteSo answer your own question, if you are a voter here (which is doubtful) will you stand and under whose banner?
Very true Barry all Hamilton does is whine about Driver he adds nothing to the debate. Do you do anything other than whine Hamilton tell the good people of Thanet who you support not who you do not?
DeleteNot at all James, I don't whine about TDC, stick my nose into everyone's business, lie about Kent companies, and bullshit with monotonous regularity. YOU claim think you know what the "public" of Thanet want, and to speak for those people, why not test your latest bullshit by standing for election, and actually try and do the job that you think you can do better than the current ELECTED cllr's.
DeleteWould I stand James, no, as if I did, bullshitters, liars and whiners such as your would only get 1 email from me in return for the avalanche of FOI's, mails, calls and pointless inane and dishonest accusations you level at people, none of which you can of course prove. It would contain 2 words, the second would be off, I simply won't deal with whiners, they are a waste of everyones time. If the likes of you were not so find of trying to run the council without the benefit of being elected, much like Driver, I might be persuaded, but alas, you will continue to whine, and that my boy is why we will never progress in Thanet. I claim to speak for myself, nobody else, I leave that to bullshitters like you and smithson.
Shame you don't have the balls to test your actual support James, just more bluster and bullshit from you, merely happy to gob off in the relative secrecy of the blogging world.....
2:21, when you aren't posting as anon, I will deal with you appropriately.
YAAAAAAWWWNNNN!!!
DeleteYep, anon's are VERY tedious.
DeleteSo to Precis the above response succinctly at 2:54 "that's a NO"
DeleteThe rest is just more whining. Why is it that people that whine always accuse others? is it a case of don't do what I do, do as I say. You are getting so tedious, why do you not add to the debate instead of stifling it every chance you get.
Try and help instead of hindering. There is a meeting of Ramsgate Town Council at 4pm Thursday 21st November to discuss the local plan and there is a meeting of the Standards Committee 7pm the same night to discuss the Independent report on Standards. I'm sure you will be most welcome and you can make your points in person instead of hiding behind anonymity. Make a stand instead of standing for the bus.
The owner of Panther who is alleged to have broken planning laws because he thinks they do not apply to himself. Shows where hamilton's loyalties lie, I think it is called Anarchy.
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DeleteSo Peter despite the drivel he cannot name anyone. How about some help. Putin he clearly is an elected leader of his country and everything there is open and transparent, maybe he is a hero to the invisible man!!
DeleteI wonder what your hero achieved by getting the scrutiny committee meeting postponed last night James? I bet you'll be having a strong (but of course secret, as the open and transparent governance model doesn't apply to your hero does it) word with him is a nice cozy little chat on the phone, or do you support him obstructing TDC business...
DeleteWill you be standing in 2015 james, will you finally STFU when you get a swift FU from the Thanet electorate...
So another question you avoid answering Hamilton
DeleteWho are your heroes?
*sigh* you seem to be as thick as james 11:09.
DeleteTry to understand now, there's a good boy ;)
"I look forward to people who do, rather than people who whine about people that do, helping Thanet drag itself out of the mire"
People who achieve, and aid progress should be supported at every turn, whining dishonest clowns such as james, driver and smithson should (and will be) dismissed as the waste of time and effort they clearly are ;)
Get a carer to read it if you're still having problems ;)
Name one Hamilton (my god you'd make a politician tremble with your prevaricating)
DeleteIf you are unable to understand my post, that really is a matter for you ;)
DeleteMy god you twist and turn in every post.
DeleteWho are your heroes?
Hamilton is obviously as much (or probably more) of a troll as Tim. Why can't Michael just automatically delete all of his messages?
DeleteThanks for that gem, Tim.
DeleteStrangely enough, Pete, I never understand a line you write so that makes us quits in my book. As for Tim not calling himself a troll, he is either smart enough to do it to divert the blood hounds or stupid enough because ne knows no better. Take your pick.
DeleteWrong again, sunshine, but then you must have to get used to that.
DeleteDid anything emerge on Holyer's death threats to Tim? That seems a pattern now of smear and insult?
DeleteWhat would happen if Tim refused to stand for election as before and called for a boycott of both ballot box and tax? None of the fools we've elected deserve another chance do they? What would they do if they were reelected?
Tim still calls himself a mayor and MP candidate, almost as though that in itself is some kind of qualification, but the truth of the matters is that he did not actually put in his electoral papers or pay his deposit. He did, however, call for a boycott of the last elections so why would it make any difference if he did so again. Is there anybody left who takes him seriously, apart from himself?
DeleteYou don't do a bad job on that score yourself, Peter, for you seem to leap up every time his name is mentioned. Anyway how would he pay me for he is certainly not gainfully employed and I could not take his poor wife's money when she already works hard in her restaurant to keep him in the manner to which he is accustomed.
DeleteIn case you had not noticed, I was actually responding to the anonymous comment above yours about Tim calling for a boycott of the next election. Perhaps I should ask for your permission first next time in case you go running to Michael to complain about me as seems to be your want.
Who said there was a message from Tim? If you read you would see that I said "the anonymous comment above yours about Tim calling for a boycott." Did you have a late night or something.
DeleteWhat is that supposed to mean, Peter, and I see you neatly side step the issue over the anonymous comment. You simply cannot accept it when you make a mistake or are caught out and you are the one who goes on about having decent debates. A debate flows rather than being buffered by a meaningless one liner.
Deleteno wonder people have no faith in TDC, if this message board is anything to go by there seems to be a poison within local politics and it is easy to see why normal people have no interest in becoming involved or hope of the issues being resolved.
ReplyDeleteIt stinks.
I'd agree with that! It's all the sniping and whining from those who have been elected by nobody, towards those that have actually been elected that makes it impossible to make any progress in Thanet. On almost any issue, the same people pop up and attack any and all suggestions made, prefering their own pie in the sky unrealistic fairy tale ideas.
DeleteIs this the same Chris Wells that was subject to a previous blog entry concerning his attitude to the public and the then opposition Labour group? If so Its not surprising that he wishes that we forget the past. Ha he turned over a new leaf?
ReplyDeleteOn a recent poll conducted, Chris Wells emerged as one of the more highly regarded councillors by the public so he has no need to hide the past. The point is, however, if we are to move forward, perpetual harping on about old issues is not going to aid that cause.
DeleteElsewhere the standard of debate remains appalling especially from those claiming to know what the public want or belief. In that respect, I agree with John Hamilton, if certain people are so sure the public want new blood why not offer themselves as a candidates for office. Perhaps FORS should put forward official candidates for the next RTC elections.
William FORS is apolitical so if any of the current members of the group want to stand that is up to them. The likes of hammy would, in the past, would have been seen at the back of a mob inciting Anarchy, this would be seen by others as cowardice in the extreme.
DeleteI would have to applaud you for actually doing rather than just talking about it. I, on the other hand, am doing by involving myself in local affairs as I firmly believe politics belong to a younger generation as you yourself have now decided to do.
Agitators have no place in a democracy as they cause more harm than they do good.
Barry, being apolitical does not prevent you seeking representation at council level as an organisation. As for the age thing, well a good council in my view would include people across a wide age range, but all with real experiences they could bring to the role. Just because I have decided after a very long run of holding voluntary office in a number of organisations, that enough is enough for me, does not mean that I think someone else of my age group could not do a good job. Most councillors are retired because, as such, they can give the time to what is essentially a voluntary office.
DeleteInterested that you feel agitators have no place in democracy when you seem more often than not to leap to the defence of the biggest agitator in Thanet.
Peter, at the count on the last council elections in 2011 I made a point of going round and talking to many of the candidates across a range of parties and independents. I believe democracy is best served by offering the electorate as wide a range of choices as possible so I applaud all those who are prepared to stand. On election day I enjoyed some good humerous banter around the polling stations with other candidates. We do not have to hate each other.
DeleteOn the other hand, I find those that perpetually whinge about the council or councillors individually, but who are never prepared to put themselves forward, to be the real hypocrites. If you are not prepared to do the job yourself should you complain about those that are? It is hardly lucrative and there have been many times on cold winter's evenings when the last thing I have really wanted to do is attend a planning meeting.
Anon is the blogger Mark the same Mark that decided to move home because he felt disgusted by his treatment in the 2010 elections
DeleteWilliam this may be an issue for you but I have never "leapt to his defense" all I said on the issue is whne I thought he is wrong I ring him and make my point. The difference is marked between hammy and Driver even you must acknowledge that driver is visible and can be challenged. hammy is invisible and agitates from behind a computer screen. Driver doesn't "throw stones into a pond" taking satisfaction from the ripples. This is not in anyone's defence just descibing the difference in the way they agitate. One takes a degree of courage the other is pure cowardice.
DeleteWilliam I want to make something very clear as you assert that I support Ian Driver. Last night I and many others wanted to hear clear answers from Cllrs Bayford and Hart on how they managed to get shafted by the owners of TEF. In my opinion showing that TDC is a soft touch when it comes to getting value for money. The antics and agenda caused the meeting to be postponed which is completely wrong. Asking to film was good as I believe all meetings should be streamed live but when he was refused permission by the chair as was her prerogative he should have accepted that decision.
DeleteWilliam does that make my position clear?
A stinging rebuke James, is that what you said when you had your cozy little chat on the phone in private? I await your lengthy attack on a cllr driver, as you have mounted against other cllrs who have not acted in accordance with your wishes.
DeleteWhy do you not have a conversation with Cllr Driver yourself I'm sure he would be prepared to talk with you. You are both on Facebook and his phone number is available.
DeleteWilliam it is silly of hammy to make his attacks from the safety of his computer as he is as deadly as a butterfly. He would have more credibility if he would speak man to man.
I would love to expose him on his blog james, but sadly the dishonest coward won't publish my comments on his blog. He only believe's in free speech so long as he controls it. You think I would waste time having a private conversation with a muppet who clearly can't be trusted? I thought you supported open and transparent governance, so why do you now suggest that driver should be allowed to hide behind private conversations about his clear piss poor performance in a public arena?
DeleteI knew you were a hypocrite james, and a liar, but I didn;t think you would demonstrate both traits quite so readily.
I'm sure driver quakes at home awaiting your obsequious call, it must be like getting savaged by a sheep.
Barry, I hear what you say about last night's meeting and that you at last seem to be accepting that Ian Driver's antics are not always in the best public interest, but more at times about self publicity. That apart, I really do find this constant thing about private chats irritating. This is an open debate on line and suggesting that issues can be resolved in private chats or over cups of coffee is, frankly, a cop out. We discuss things here.
DeleteThere are plenty of other opportunities, if so desired, for private chats or meet ups, but those are precisely that, private as opposed to a public discussion on line. The twain should not meet.
Oh dear Hamilton caught in more bullshit you do not allow unfettered commentary on your blog and you even admit it on the blog itself
DeleteThere are only 2 spammers not welcome on my site. Driver, james, even you (not hiding behind your anon of course) are welcome to comment, but as we know, you and the others don't have the courage ;)
DeleteJames is a hypocrite William, insisting on openness and transparancy in others, whilst supporting privacy and secrecy when dealing with his hero. Nothing new, he's a proven liar, hypocrite was an inevitable next step.
absolutely wonder Hamilton admits he talks out of his Arse
DeleteWilliam I said that when I think he has done something wrong I phone him and tell him. I said nothing about "cozy chats" that rubbish was hammy's spin. There is no cozy anything. Some people prefer to debate on here which is to be commended others prefer to meet Councillors over a coffee some do both. I am not political as I have conversations with both Tory and Labour over a coffee as you know.
DeleteWhat I find however there are those that agitate from behind their computer when they profess one thing and do another for the whole purpose of agitation, This behaviour is cowardly in the extreme and doesn't move the debate on.
Understanding an agenda and disapproving of it doesn't change anything when that person is fixated in getting what they want. The only way to change the agenda is to make it uncomfortable to pursue or to take away the need to do it. For instance if filming were allowed then he would stop. The Tories need to take the higher ground and sideline the need to be anarchic in the 1st place
We know how it goes james, when your master needs support, in you rush to publicly defend the dishonest media whore, when you think he might have gone to far, you have a cozy little chat in private. Open and transparent for everyone else, seems that's another rule driver has decided he won;t be bound by, aided once again by his minion.
DeleteAh, good to see you've had a cozy chat with your master, and he has has told you how best to defend his appalling behaviour, and abuse of procedure, not to mention the waste of council time and money. Your obsequiousness is comical james.
Who is "we"? you can only speak for yourself.
DeleteNow how does it go oh yes "Hamilton speaks out of his arse and censors his blog!"
Thanks again, Tim, at least you have an ample arse for talking out of - time for change, what?
DeleteWhat's with this "are you the TROLL" nonse, Pete? I thought you did not bother with anonymous folk yet here you are taking sides between two of them. How confused is that?
DeleteWhat you do James is leap to the defence of Thanet's own professional bandwagon jumper on every occasion he is rightly castigated for hos shallow political opportunism, and CLAIM to have a nice private cosy chat on the phone when you don't.
ReplyDeleteTell me james, even if people were to believe you, a proven liar, how is having a cozy chat on the phone "open and transparent" political discourse james? Seems openness and transparency only applies to others.
Invisible, nope, I am here most days, and have my own blog. I thought that the inclusivity you whine about in relation to meetings, where they are broadcast on the net, and you suggest people should be able to question people in real time on the internet only applies when you choose for it to apply James?
Driver simply leaps on ANY non/issue that will guarantee him some media coverage, leaving the rest of the residents of Thanet to ride the ripples of bullshit he and you create.
Your bullshit is well known, hence why you know you would be decimated if you dared to try to stand for election, and driver is no longer trusted by any Thanet residents beyond his minions, as the KCC election proves.
I look forward to you trying to back your bullshit and lies at the ballot box in 2015 James, but I KNOW you don't have the bottle.
I find it strange that Hamilton talks about standing for the 2015 elections which are over 16 months away and you aren't even able to enter a name for them let alone campaign. All he is doing is more cowardly agitation from behind his computer screen. I have noticed he NEVER answers a question so IMHO would make a future politician as he does this SO well
DeleteWhy's it strange that I should challenge someone who seems to tink he should be running TDC to actually run for the office he is so fast to critisise? I don't have a political agenda, so who I vote for in 15 will depend on who stands. There are a couple of certainties of course, it would NEVER be Driver or Worrow if they stood in my ward, and James, not in a million years.
ReplyDeleteGood to see that you have made up your "mind" 16 months though anon, nothing like making an informed voting choice based on the policies and performance ay, no wonder Thanet's in the shitter with voters like you.
But you, as an average voter do prove good ole Winston right though;
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
Hamilton I read these blogs and have never read anywhere that Barry says he wants to run TDC. Who you vote for is up to you but as you have no idea who will stand yet and neither do you say what ward you live in you are just talking BS again.
DeleteI didn't say I had made up my mind because there are no candidates as yet so stop talking out of your A**E.
How about you answer some straight questions.
1. what ward are you in
2. Who did you vote for in 2010
3. Which party do you support nationally
Anon, seems that even if I am "talking out of my arse" that the conversation is clearly WAY over your head.
Deleteso to deal with your question
1. None of your business
2. None of your business
3. None of your business
Perhaps if you weren't post as anon you might get further with your enquiry, but I doubt it.
Cheggers, I have answered that already keep up there boy. Because I will simply not suffer fools liars and bullshitters, and as a councillor, I would have to deal with the likes of you, James and smithson on a daily basis, and I have way better things to do than answer the inane, pointless and laughably inept communications from these clowns, and the rest of the usual suspects that the cllr's of TDC have to.
Its not me that thinks I can do it better, but then james doesn't have the balls to back up his lies and bullshit, that we know.
Well finally something that Hamilton admits "He talks out of his A**E" something that has been obvious for a while.
DeleteAs to allowing unfettered access to your blog I have posted 3 times to it none of which has seen the light of day. surprise, surprise. you even take pride in admitting you censor commentary as in "Smithson your comments will not be allowed on here" Free speech you are worse that Stalin and Chairman Mao combined.
Since when has "even if I am" amounted to a confession? You're clearly not a lawyer.
DeleteAre so you must be Arlington resident, when you post something higher than the level of a 3 year old trying to sound clever I will happily post it, as I have posted your drivel before. Smithson is simply a pointless spammer.
Hamilton speaks out of his arse and admits he censors his blog. 2 truths finally
DeleteIt was Tim talking out of his arse wasn't it? DO get the story right.
DeleteWhat I find strange about some of the commentary on this blog is the inability to talk about the issues which are a fundamental breakdown in confidence with the people who are supposed to lead and direct. Whether the breakdown is caused by the pettiness and bitterness of past events or the dogma of the National parties what is clear is that both main parties are failing the electorate. As much as it pains them they should put their differences to one side and work to improve the Civic pride of the people of Thanet.
ReplyDeleteThanet is no different to any other midterm council, except that is has a volumous and noisy band of nimbys and whiners, determined to prevent any and all progress in Thanet, and a political chancer who takes advantage of their gullibility.
DeleteOnce Driver, worrow etc have been removed, and the nimbys and whiners have been properly sidelined, then and only then will Thanet progress. I look forward to shopping in Tesco's Margate, drinking in weatherspoons on the seafront in Ramsgate, and taking the mrs for a night away in the hotel that hopefully gets built on Ramsgate seafront, once the whiners are finally dispensed with.
and Hamilton admits he believes discussion about local matters should be censored do you also believe Gulags are good it certainly sounds like it
DeleteAnd you wonder why you don't make it, oh dear.
DeleteHamilton speaks out of his arse and admits he censors his blog. 2 truths finally
Deletewhat party do you support then Hamilton?
Any party that would have nothing to do with a knob such as you my boy ;)
DeleteThat cuts down to zero any party supporting your position as the only place you have stood is the bus stop holding mommies hand
DeleteI can;t see anyone putting up with a worthless knob like yourself either my boy.
DeleteFor a start off troll I'm not your boy, secondly learn some manners, and thirdly stop hiding behind your mommy. Does she know your an idiot.
DeleteHamilton speaks out of his arse and admits he censors his blog. 2 truths finally
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA "stop hiding" coming from a knob that's actually plagiarizing james really is possibly the funniest thing I've seen here this week lol
DeleteGood try boy, but you're a dismal failure (again ;) )
John Hamilton I have had a complaint about the doorman pornographer comments, when a real person complains about an anonymous commentator like yourself I pretty much always uphold the complaint.
DeletePlease appreciate that I don’t have a great deal of spare time for advanced comment moderation, however in this instance I will endeavour to delete the offending comments.
Please also note that the easiest way to deal with offensive anonymous comment is to go to my blogger dashboard page and spam the whole lot without bothering to read them, which I will do to your comments if you continue to misbehave.
As I believe you have made several hundred comments here I would expect this to trigger Google’s spam filter removing your ability to comment on blogger hosted blogs altogether.
Sadly it seems cheggers is happy to try to get the better of his superiors, but sadly runs off and whines when he's bettered. Sad really, but not unexpected.
DeletePS you REALLY need to try to get a handle on this anonymous foolishness you insist on perpetuating, inspite of me taking the time to educate you on several occasions, you're starting to look a little stupid now ;)
DeleteOh bless you cheggers, and here was me thinking you could look after yourself, when all the time you really are a bit of a pussy ;)
DeleteMichael you give a fool a platform and when cautioned he bites the hand that feeds him, Hamilton you really need to learn manners. You complain when driver does his level best to get publicity and yet you are no different.
DeleteHamilton speaks out of his arse and admits he censors his blog. 2 truths finally
I wonder if I could get a blogger account like that
John I guess you will find this hard to follow, but you are an anonymous commentator because no one knows who you are. Peter is not an anonymous commentator because he is widely known locally, newspaper articles and so on. If as you say John Hamilton is your real name it is hardly my fault if you remain an nonentity when you use it.
DeleteFor it to be an insult cheggers, it would have to be untrue, and as we know, both in your case, and with every post I make, I post only facts and truth :)
DeleteArlington resident, are you drunk, drugged or plain stupid?
I'm not going to educate you again Michael, if you can;t grasp anonimity having had it explained to you omn several occasions, I won;t waste any further time trying to prevent you looking foolish.It's hardly my fault you can't grasp this very simple fact.
DeleteWho on earth is "Arlington resident" there isnt one post on here by that person.
DeleteIf you mean the following statement "Michael you give a fool a platform and when cautioned he bites the hand that feeds him, Hamilton you really need to learn manners. You complain when driver does his level best to get publicity and yet you are no different." that says anon and although I think they have you pegged hammy it doesn't say "arlington resident" unless you think it is someone who has tried to post to your blog and you censored it which would prove their statement "Hamilton speaks out of his arse and admits he censors his blog. 2 truths finally" absolutely on the nail
Why don't you vcarry out one of your extensive "investigations" james, then you can back to to us and confirm with utter certainty that he's a mongolian pig breeder, that is the usual level of accuracy of your "investigations" ;)
DeleteSadlt (for Thanet) the only set of people speaking out of their arse, are the usual suspects, of which you are clearly a leading light with your special brand of lies and bullshit. As michael is busilly ferreting around censoring his blog, and your master does the same, is it any surprise that you display your hypocrisy in commenting on me not allowing a clear intellectual peon to post on my blog..
With EVERY post, you lose credibility (what little you had) james.
You said it was "arlington resident" no explain how you came to that conclusion (end of investigation) and you said you "speak out of your a**e" not me. (end of investigation)
DeleteYou really need to find some manners.
Michael, might I suggest respectfully that one way of getting your blog back on track might be to reject as spam any post containing the word "bull****?
DeleteYep that's down to your usual standard of "investigation" james.
Deletetrue hammy so easy or it could be "you said now you prove it"
DeleteWhy are your posts being deleted hammy was it something you said perhaps LOL
See that's the difference between you and me james, I only post what I can prove, you post laughable bullshit, which if your not forced to remove it, you hope the particularly gullible will swallow it, as you have no proof of anything.
DeleteOh it's just cheggers being a pussy, nothing new, he whines almost as much as you do.
ok hammy prove your point!!
Deletehow do you know that any anon is "arlington resident" any reply that doesn't achieve that point is just proving you cannot do that and that the anon is right when they said
"Hamilton speaks out of his arse and admits he censors his blog"
Hamilton stop trolling this blog you are getting tedious
DeleteJohn “madam you are ugly” is an insult false or true. As you evidently don’t understand this perhaps you would kindly take your comment elsewhere, your own blog would be favourite. You could say my patience is running out, common courtesy and inoffensive language or it goes.
DeleteBless you cheggers, that you have to run to fetch a grown up is a comment on your failings not everyone elses.
ReplyDeleteNow Ja,es, let me teach you about proof my boy. Anon, confirmed he has tried to post on my blog 3 times, and he hasn't been published. As only 2 people don't get published on my blog, a well known spammer with 100's of comments, and one other, with only 3, Arlington Resident. That's how it's done james my boy. Now scuttle off back to your master, and get your next set of instructions, there's a good boy.
Ah thanks for that so by your own admission you prove his point that you do censor your blog!!
DeleteI thank you for that
so you have at last proved what has been obvious for so long to talk absolute rubbish when you criticise Driver for censorship when in fact it is you that practice censorship.
What a hypocrite!!!
Do most of the time Peter still looks like he has tried Michaels patience for the last time
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteJohn please see this as last warning, if you can’t keep your anonymous comments about real people with in the bounds of common courtesy then at least keep them to your own blog.
DeleteI reckon Hamilton isn't going to be flavour of the month with his party when his real identity is unveiled.
DeleteWhat, you don't mean the Arizona guns for all party, 8:42?
DeleteWell said on YouTube etc: more civil servants should be sacked. they're simply an expensive irrelevance. Surely TDC could manage with at least a 30% reduction and then ongoing reform?
ReplyDeleteI am but a young and ignorant scientist so this may sound like a stupid idea. But, if the council does not want to allow filming of TDC meetings, why not fill the room with people to the point that there only option is to film. It is to my knowledge that anyone is allowed to attend. In this way hopefully politicians will stop arguing about stupid pointless things, trying to better one another through the others flaws, and get on with what's important making peoples lives better within the community making sure people are safe, providing services, and helping businesses flourish feeding the wealth back into the community.
ReplyDeleteArh yes, fair point. Thank you for your feedback. Any ideas yourself on what could be done?
DeleteYoung and Ignorant scientist (I am sure you are not really!)
DeleteYou have not told us which part of Thanet you are from? If it happens to be Ramsgate, then a collection of individuals and groups will be meeting at the Custom House tomorrow on the seafront to try to start the process of establishing a Neighbourhood Plan. It starts at 4pm and I am sure a scientist would be valued as part of any committee that may be formed there?
Be interesting after the revelations this week whether anything will be said
DeleteWell Barry, if councillors are going to be there then I would expect them to play a facilitating role
DeleteDon't be so filthy!
DeleteYoung and ignorant scientist. I am an old, savvy scientist and I'm afraid you have a lot to learn. The vast majority of councillors didn't go into local government to "make people's lives better in the community" or any such thing. They belong to political parties and their sole purpose is to beat the other lot. It's just a childish game in which they shout and call each other names. They have nothing but contempt for the people they are supposed to be representing and they don't listen to anybody outside their party. A few of them do have brains which function at some level, but they all do what they are told and vote in accordance with their party's dictat, even when they personally disagree with it. In essence, local democracy has been undermined by invented notions of party allegiance and collective responsibility. The only answer is to get rid of all of them and elect independent councillors who are wholly devoted to their constituents.
DeleteWhat, like Driver and Worrow who are wholly devoted to their own agendas and political aspirations. What you fail to grasp is, 8:53, that everyone becomes political in the world of governance even if they declare no main party allegiance. Loved the old and savvy scientist bit, in which life was that?
Delete