Filming Thanet District Council meeting and council webcasts.

The council officers seem to recommending that councillors vote not to allow filming of council meetings at tonight’s council meeting.

In June of this year The Department for Communities and Local Government produced a guide about council meetings http://democracy.thanet.gov.uk/documents/s32778/Annex%201%20-%20DCLG%20-%20Your%20Councils%20Cabinet%20-%20Going%20to.pdf

It says:

“Can I film the meeting?

Council meetings are public meetings. Elected representatives and council officers acting

in the public sphere should expect to be held to account for their comments and votes in

such meetings. The rules require councils to provide reasonable facilities for any member

of the public to report on meetings. Councils should thus allow the filming of councillors

and officers at meetings that are open to the public.

The Data Protection Act does not prohibit such overt filming of public meetings. Councils

may reasonably ask for the filming to be undertaken in such a way that it is not disruptive

or distracting to the good order and conduct of the meeting. As a courtesy, attendees

should be informed at the start of the meeting that it is being filmed; we recommend that

those wanting to film liaise with council staff before the start of the meeting.

The council should consider adopting a policy on the filming of members of the public

speaking at a meeting, such as allowing those who actively object to being filmed not to be

filmed, without undermining the broader transparency of the meeting.”

But the senior officers advice for tonight's meeting is:

"4.2.1    Another option that could be considered is an amended version of the existing rules on the filming of meetings.  Firstly for the purposes of clarity, what the Council means by an ‘accredited media organisation’ could be expressly defined and added to the Constitution.  Secondly, consideration could be given to reserving the decision on whether to permit the filming of a meeting by an accredited media organisation to the meeting as a whole instead of the Chairman.  

4.2.2    It is suggested that the definition of an accredited media organisation that is included within the Council’s Constitution is: “a media organisation or individual that holds a National Press Card and is registered with the Press Complaints Commission (or its successor) or a similar regulated body with a code of conduct and associated complaints process through which the Council could take recourse”.

4.2.3        This definition retains the Council’s right to take recourse with a journalist or body if it thinks that it has been misrepresented in order to protect the Council’s interests.

4.2.4        Currently the decision as to whether to allow filming by an accredited media organisation rests with the chair of the meeting in question.  In practice, some chairs have made the decision whether or not to permit filming without reference to their committee members whereas others have adopted a more inclusive approach and sought the views of the committee, either in advance of the meeting or at the beginning of the meeting itself. Although one possibility would be to recommend that the decision is taken by the meeting as a whole as this would allow for a more representative decision, one of the advantages of the decision remaining with the chair is that accredited media organisations can seek permission in advance via the corporate communications team and this gives the chair time consider his or her decision and seek the advice of officers if required. It is suggested (in Annex 2) that requests to the chair need to be submitted at least five working days prior to the relevant meeting. Where permission to film has been granted, the members of the committee will be informed of that decision prior to the meeting taking place.

4.2.5        It is important to note that this approach would still retain an element of Option one in that the recording or filming of meetings of the regulatory committees (Licensing, Planning, Governance & Audit and Standards) would still remain prohibited.

4.2.6        On balance therefore, if this option is preferred it is recommended that the revised definition of accredited media organisations set out in paragraph 4.2.2 above is adopted but that the decision whether or not to permit filming remains with the chair of the meeting." 

In amongst all the bumph the council has published about this at http://democracy.thanet.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=141&MId=3051&Ver=4 see 17a, the council is spending money on bandwidth problems associated with hosting the films they make of the meetings.

No mention here of why the can’t just put the things on YouTube for nothing, or for that matter live stream them to YouTube. 

I have tried emailing various councillors about this one, but have so far only had reply from Simon Moores: “I'm in favour of allowing filming with the chair's approval ie you make a request in advance”

I guess this rather epitomises the problem of modern government, I don’t have much time to monitor what the council are up to, so I didn’t notice this one until yesterday, which doesn’t leave much time to get thing sorted. Which I am trying to do with my mobile internet and the only councillor who I know of that will respond immediately to an email is Simon.   

I also emailed Clive, thus:

From: "michaelchild@aol.com" <michaelchild@aol.com>
To: clive.hart@btinternet.com
Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2013, 9:26
Subject: TDCTV

Hi Clive, what is the Labour group’s position on the filming of council meetings? I heard it was being decided today, until yesterday.

There doesn’t seem to be any reason that the council can’t just live stream the meetings to youtube, now that youtube have removed the length and size restrictions, so I can’t understand all the stuff about bandwidth and cost.

The government paper seems to be quite clear that anyone should be able to film public council meetings and yet out officers seem to recommending that the public shouldn’t be able to film public meetings. 

Best regards Michael

here is his reply 

"Being discussed this evening at full council."

various other councils are using youtube to live stream council meetings here is the link to York councils webcasts http://www.youtube.com/user/cityofyorkcouncil?feature=watch  

The first webcast of a Thanet District Council meeting

Having I believe been partly instrumental in causing this webcast is should first like to thank all of those responsible in bringing it about and most particularly to thank them for taking the risk of doing so with inadequate equipment.

I have managed to listen to all of it between different things that at I had to do yesterday evening and this morning and should point out that once it has downloaded to your pc it seems to stay there and any time you open the webpage that it’s on you can drag the cursor in the time bar to wherever you left off.

I suppose the thing that is most evident in the council meeting is the futility of much of the party political wrangling at local level, the problems are very large as are the constraints with evidently few practical solutions.

There is also a sense that this is mostly Margate’s council, with some councillors often seeming to forget the existence of the other Thanet towns.

A few pictures from yesterday’s walk, click on the link for them http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/Blogpicts1210/id21.htm

Sunday ramble

Looking over the past weeks blogging it started with modern art and the Turner contemporary, I am often surprised by the weak use of the internet by publicly funded organisations, in this case their website http://www.turnercontemporary.org/whatson/?p=153 still hasn’t managed to get the latest video http://vimeo.com/9627523 promoting their main project on their website.

As the event is due to take place in three days time it makes one wonder what the hell they are playing at, presumably the video they have failed to add to their website was funded by their own grant money.

Still on the subject of modern art here is some of the work of one of my artist customers who buys 5 and 10p books from the austerity section in my bookshop.

The Pleasurama saga still rumbles on, am still trying to get some response to my FOI request made in October of last year for the development agreement, all this time and still they won’t even tell me if I will get the document or not.

This is an important document as due to a loophole in the law, there isn’t a planning agreement, this would normally be the key publicly available document for a development of this size, but the loophole is that there doesn’t have to be one as the council owns the land it is to be built on.

About a year ago I discovered that Roger Gale and Laura Sandys had a meeting with our senior Environment Agency officers and so asked them to put a few questions that relate to various large local developments to them, one of these questions was to ask them what their position was on the Pleasurama developments flood and storm risk?

Here is their answer:

“The Pleasurama development gained planning consent prior to the publication of the latest government guidance on development and flood risk, PPS25. When we were consulted in 2003 our floodplain maps did not show the site to be at risk and the design, at that stage, had clear evacuation routes to the top of the cliff. But, having received revised plans for the development last year, we highlighted our concern over flood risk and recommended that a site-specific flood risk assessment be undertaken. This would inform appropriate mitigation measures such as recommended floor levels, flood resilient design and an evacuation plan to ensure that the development is made as safe as possible.”

Now since then the council has agreed a new development agreement with the developer, obviously it should contain some reference to the flood and storm protection.

Another important aspect of this document is how the council is protected financially in the event of the developer getting into financial difficulties.

As the council decided to go ahead without the bond to protect it this is another important matter, my understanding is that part of the original development agreement was that the council agreed to buy the hotel part of the development if the developer couldn’t find a commercial operator for it.

I also understand that the development agreement states that the hotel is to be built first, so it would appear that we could have a situation where the council would have to find millions of pounds that it doesn’t have, to buy an hotel that no one wants.

The roadworks on harbour Parade have rather concentrated my historical interests on this part of Ramsgate this week, I wonder if the listed status of the harbour will effect how they deal with a big chunk of he old harbour wall getting in the way of their trench?

I foresee that they could run into considerable difficulties when they reach the old underground toilets, I would imagine that if the work that they are doing collapses them this could lead to considerable extra expense.

I then come to TDCTV, I gather that the video of last Thursday’s council meeting should be available on the internet from tomorrow afternoon.

As I consider that this is a very important step towards more open government from the council, I want to stress here that I am wholly supportive of them doing this. I am also strongly supportive of them going ahead with this, with dated and unreliable equipment rather than throwing money at the problem, especially as taking this risk leaves them open to criticism when things go wrong.

Next I would like to draw your attention to the new About Ramsgate blog http://my-ramsgate.blogspot.com/ and the associated collection of old pictures of Ramsgate that are appearing linked to it see http://picasaweb.google.com/115229654097861593494/OldRamsgate

I can tell you all from experience that the amount of work involved in publishing and identifying these old pictures is considerable.

This leads to the dilemma faced by historians, which is that much local history is derived from a fair amount of detective work followed by the historian drawing some conclusions and making the decision that those conclusions represent the truth.

For me the conundrum of Tissot’s blue plaque sums up the problem nicely, obviously we want to have a blue plaque commemorating his association with the town and obviously the at the moment The Castle Hotel is the most likely candidate but at the moment we can’t be 100% sure that it is the right building.

I suppose niggling in the back of most of our minds at the moment is the forthcoming general election, even talking to Conservative that I know there is sense of,

“always keep a-hold of Nurse
For fear of finding something worse.”

Much more a case of people considering the worse of evils, than having positive ideas about selecting the best government.

The legality, or not of taking us to war and the expenses scandal featuring greatly in ones thoughts.

There is certainly a sense of people wanting electoral reform, well reform of our whole political system if it comes to that and I think this may effect the way people vote.

Anyway to keep on the local theme here, what interests me most is what will happen in the general election locally.

My feelings here is that peoples perception of the quality of local government that they have been and are receiving both at county and district level, is likely to have some effect on the way people vote in the general election.

I don’t think anything much could effect the result in Thanet North, but here in Thanet South I am not so sure.

Talking to councillors and council officers it is obvious that there is going to be some sort of major shake up in the cabinet at TDC, there has also been much talk of change of leadership and deputy leadership.

As I have said before one of the big problems with the leaders position in the council it is a full time job but it doesn’t attract the level of salary commensurate with the job.

One does get occasions where the job of leader is seen as a political stepping stone, usually towards being an MP, but there doesn’t appear to be anyone on that road within the conservative group at the moment.

Talking to politicians of all parties at the moment particularly at local level the fallout of the expenses scandal means that it is becoming more difficult to find people who want to become councillors at all.

One road here is the possibility of having an elected mayor, partly because this position carries a large salary that would enable a professional person to give up their job for three years to take the task on.

I know that in the next 18 months or so the council is obliged to investigate which method of government they think most suitable for Thanet and officers will have to consider the option of an elected mayor.

Sounding them out on this one I get the feeling that they don’t like the idea of this one.

Of course we could force the issue by getting up a mayoral referendum petition, something that would mean that they would then have to ask the electorate in a ballot if they would rather vote for a leader or have one chosen for them.

As effectively this means asking the people who bother to vote if the want to vote, it seems a bit of a forgone conclusion to me.

However the short term question here is, would a change in the leadership at TDC make people more likely to vote Conservative in the national elections?



Still rambling on I’m afraid and now thinking of the local things that have gone onto the backburner, Euroferries are another company that seem to have problems keeping their website up to date, while their website is announcing tomorrow as a start date for their ferry service, it won’t actually let you book a ticket until the 18th of march and replies from them are to the effect that the service won’t start until later in March.

China Gateway was as far as I remember due to be started this March but still no sign of a planning agreement, I have always maintained that the layout of the site would probably make surface drainage imposable, so I had expected completely new plans to have appeared by now.



I will ramble on as the day progresses and may even go through and make any corrections and try and find the link to the book art website.

TDCTV Thanet District Council meeting premier, today’s the big day.

As some of you will know while KCC were using a large budget running Kent TV, TDC snubbed this service preferring to use Youtube instead.

They have various films on their Youtube channel below an example.



Anyway I believe that today’s proposed screening of this evenings council meeting will be too long to put on to Youtube so I expect they will host it elsewhere, I also expect some of you will remember that the previous premier didn’t go to plan see http://birchington.blogspot.com/2009/12/silent-movie.html

I am afraid that when TDC engage in matters of technology things don’t always succeed, anyway we will hope for Ars Gratia Artis but don’t be surprised if they attempt something somewhat more complicated with the lion and things don’t work out quite as expected.

It’s not looking too good so far, this is from today’s agenda:

Public Document Pack

Please note that the recording and/or
photographing of any Council meeting is not
currently permitted under the Council’s
procedure rules.

You are hereby summoned to attend the meeting of the Thanet District Council to be held
in Council Chamber, Cecil Street, Margate, Kent the on Thursday, 25 February 2010 at
7.00 pm for the purpose of transacting the business mentioned below.
Democratic Services Manager

To: The Members of Thanet District Council
FIRE ALARM PROCEDURES: If the fire alarm is activated, please vacate the offices via
the stairs either through the security door to the left of the Chairman or opposite the lifts in
the foyer. Please do not use the lifts. Please assemble in Hawley Square on the green.
Officers will assist you and advise when it is deemed safe to return to the Chamber.
SUPPLEMENTARY A G E N D A

Update I have just received a message to the effect that the council meeting won’t be webcast due to problems with the council chamber’s public address system and that the council will amend their website to this effect.

I am assured that this is a technical problem that the council just don’t have the money to repair at the moment and that when funding can be found to repair or replace the Public address system the council still have plans to webcast their meetings.

Further update that I think reflects particularly well on the council, they now say that they are going to give it a go and put up with the flack if they get eaten by the lion, metaphorically that is.

Here is the official version

Chamber microphones delay council webcast pilot
We have identified some constraints regarding the council chamber microphones and are currently investigating a range of solutions. Until a cost effective solution is in place, we are unable to proceed with the webcast pilot which was planned for Thursday, 25 February 2010.

Replacing the equipment would require significant expenditure. Because of the the current financial climate we are looking carefully at doing this in the most cost effective way.

We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused, and will update you when we know more.

Update, the word on the street is that they are still going to have a go at it and that cabinet seems to be pushing the issue through, so lay off them for a bit if you don’t mind.

Possibly the worm turned and it may be up to us to support this, after all I think we are saying that we want more open government and I suspect it hasn’t been an easy day all round.

Let them ride the lion for a bit please.

Thanet district Council consultation or catastrophe? And TDCTV launch.

Having had some feed back from people having difficulty responding to the council’s core strategy consultation I have made it quick and easy to respond even using an antique computer, here’s how to do it.

1 Open a new Word document.

2 Click on this link http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/blogpicts129/id15.htm select and copy the whole web page that appears.

3 Paste it into the Word document, this may take a little time as it is a complex document.

4 Fill in part 1 (the bit with the red writing) this is just your contact details.

5 Save the document somewhere on your computer where you can find it easily.

6 Attach it to an email and send it to local.plans@thanet.gov.uk

Several people I know tried to respond using the TDC website, no one actually succeeded without considerable difficulty, some tried to use the form there that you can’t actually write on, some tried to log on at the TDC website at http://consult.thanet.gov.uk/inovem/consult.ti/core.strategy/consultationHome and failed, some got as far as filling out the form only to find no send button at the end.

What am I commenting on?

Click on this link to read the whole document http://consult.thanet.gov.uk/inovem/consult.ti/core.strategy/view?objectId=49236 the links on the right of the page enable you to navigate from page to page.

Why use the Ramsgate Society response?

1 It has been prepared by trained architects and written by a solicitor.

2 Although the Ramsgate Society have put a lot of time and effort into this one their submission only counts as one response, every individual that sends it in again will be counted as another response.

What if I don’t like or agree with the Ramsgate Society response?

When you get to step 4 you can modify the Word document before you send it.

Now on to other things some of you may remember that back in May 2008 I started encouraging the council to put videos of the council meetings on the internet, see http://thanetonline.blogspot.com/2008/05/tdctv.html after nearly a year of this encouragement I started to make some progress, see http://thanetonline.blogspot.com/2009/03/tdctv.html and now the first video of a council meeting will be available on the internet later this week, see http://thanetpress.blogspot.com/2009/12/council-meetings-to-be-webcast.html

I should like to express my thanks to all of the councillors and council officers who have made this possible.

Here are the pictures from yesterday’s and this morning’s walk http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/blogpicts129/id16.htm nothing very exciting and not that many, it was very cold so I didn’t hang about that much.

I am still pursuing the cliff safety issues that relate to the Pleasurama development, the council and their professional advisors have decided to do this one the hard way with me, so for the council this has now reached local government ombudsman level and for the advisors presiding director of the parent company level.

As you see from the pictures there is still nothing to prevent heavy vehicles going up on to the cliff top there, even right near the edge where they have hacked a lump of the cliff façade out.

I am considering a campaign to get the councillors and council officers to start using hats that we can identify them more easily by again, hence the picture above.

The mystery of Thanet District Council TV

One of the things I post regularly on http://thanetpress.blogspot.com/ are the new videos that Thanet District Council put up on Youtube, some of these are obviously professionally made for the council, probably at considerable expense.

Don’t get me wrong here they are very good well made videos and the latest batch to go up here http://thanetpress.blogspot.com/2009/07 water-safety-code.html on an important subject that may save lives.

When I first started posting them I noticed that many of them had hardly been viewed at all, the problem being that in quite a few cases there doesn’t seem to be any discernable use of them made on the councils website.

Occasionally one may appear embedded in a news item on the council’s homepage but these items vanish after a relatively short space of time, strange really like the councils press release photographs.

Here is the latest one, Youth Matters meet Gary Rhodes at the National Junior Chef competition 2009, not something you would think they would want to hide, it shows Thanet College in an exceptionally good light.



when I embedded it here it had been up for two days and only had 7 viewings three of which were me messing about getting it to embed properly.

TDCTV

I have just discovered that Thanet District Council installed a webcast TV system in the council chamber back in 2003, in the light of various postings about some fairly interesting exchanges at recent council meetings, does anyone know why it’s not being used so we can all appreciate our local democracy at work?

Mike Harrison has some suggestions about this on Newington Blogspot link on sidebar.



This is a sample from my own rather primitive attempts at webcast just to show that this very inexpensive and amusing as well as informative.