Anyway if anyone finds an envelope with £800,000 in it, then it probably belongs to those nice people at council and if anyone finds one with around £4,500,000 in it then it probably belongs to those nice people at SFP.
News, Local history and Thanet issues from Michael's Bookshop in Ramsgate see www.michaelsbookshop.com I publish over 200 books about the history of this area click here to look at them.
Tuesday 22 October 2013
Royal Sands Development on the Pleasurama site in Ramsgate this time it’s have the council misplaced £800,000?
Anyway if anyone finds an envelope with £800,000 in it, then it probably belongs to those nice people at council and if anyone finds one with around £4,500,000 in it then it probably belongs to those nice people at SFP.
22 comments:
Comments, since I started writing this blog in 2007 the way the internet works has changed a lot, comments and dialogue here were once viable in an open and anonymous sense. Now if you comment here I will only allow the comment if it seems to make sense and be related to what the post is about. I link the majority of my posts to the main local Facebook groups and to my Facebook account, “Michael Child” I guess the main Ramsgate Facebook group is We Love Ramsgate. For the most part the comments and dialogue related to the posts here goes on there. As for the rest of it, well this blog handles images better than Facebook, which is why I don’t post directly to my Facebook account, although if I take a lot of photos I am so lazy that I paste them directly from my camera card to my bookshop website and put a link on this blog.
Isn't it a criminal offence to give false information in response to an FOI request?
ReplyDeleteWhat professional fees, what for as you suggest..is this scaremongering by SFP? This should all be sorted out in court, whatever the cost implications for the people of Thanet. It would be refreshing to have all this apparently devious accounting laid open to proper lawful scrutiny.
ReplyDeleteMichael many thanks for this important information. I am disappointed by the quality of answers provided to the Pleasurama Working Group and will be raising my concerns at the meeting on 31on October
ReplyDeleteAs far as I can see Ian, Peter et al, this group has asked a number of questions which boil down to.
ReplyDelete1 Did the developer deceive the council into choosing them instead of another developer?
2 Did the council carry out proper checks that the developer had the money to carry out the development?
3 What has been the developer’s financial commitment to the development thus far?
The only answer that is verifiable is a complete fabrication, and other answers, like the developer having spent £4m to £5m on professional fees which is patently bonkers, look like they need further examination.
My guess would be that the council sees the “Pleasurama site review task and finish group” as a bit of a joke.
I think I can see the direction that this line of questioning is leaning towards, which is something along the lines of. If the information that the council granted the development agreement and leases on was flawed, are those documents legally valid?
Surely everyone has worked it out by now, the Council's records are in chaos or non-existent, public funds are not protected, but the executive is prepared to do or say or write anything to cover up. For "Task and Finish" read "bury".
ReplyDeleteI think the vast majority have worked out that there are no more than a dozen people who prattle on endlessly about the same old rhubarb on this site, repeating their unproven claims, scaremongering and getting precisely no where other than to give succour to a right chancers political aspirations. Believe me folks, there is actually more to life.
ReplyDeleteAt least the SFP ventures accounts are up todate. The Sept 2012 accounts showed both assets and liabilities of about £5 millions, Up from about £2 millions from 2011. The 2013 have been filed but not available for free yet. But it could be that they have other projects.
ReplyDeleteWasn't there, at one time, a prolific contributor to the blog who re-assured the readership that all would be well with the Pleasurama Development ? All that was required, he argued, was for the usual suspects and the nimbys to be quiet. As the hush developed and hands cupped ears, to better discern his prophecy materialise, we still didn't hear the joyous sounds of heavy plant and cement mixers ! Then rumours began that he was planning to do the honourable thing. A bottle of whisky and the mess Webley (that nowadays appears to be available only in Arizona).
ReplyDeleteTime to put aside Hammy things. Laugh though he is.
Ian has undertaken (above) to ask for the detail. But it still looks as if the only people smiling are the lawyers. They'll get paid win or lose. It would be ironic (or ruddy clever) if SFP now commission a critical survey of the cliff face ............
And of course...God was an Astronaut, and Kennedy was Killed by the CIA.....
DeleteIt only took you two minutes to read the comment above and come up with that reply. Was it suggested by the chap in the next bed or have you stopped taking your meds again ?
DeleteI am unable to discern any relevance in your comment, to the thread theme or the comment you purport to respond to.
But if you care to explain ?
It took you 1hr 37m to work out that? I am afraid I cannot perceive a conspiricy behind every telegraph pole...so I think you must be in need of the medication that you think I have missed... I am obviously one of the vast majority that trust Local Government...of what ever coluor...(except Green)
DeleteWould someone like to have a guess at the breakdown in development costs.
DeleteSurety (Bond) £1M
Cliff works contribution £100K
Site leases £550K
Groundworks £unknown but paid for by Cardy
Storm drain £unknown but estimated at £800K
Roadworks £600K as stated by Estate agent in interview with BBC SE
any thing else ?
A couple of thoughts here, one I haven’t heard any confirmation either way as to whether Cardy Construction have been paid wholly or partly by SFP. Another is the storm drain work was subcontracted by Cardy Construction to Oatmor Harris Excavations Ltd. So who actually paid for this is also something I don’t have information on.
DeleteI guess the anything else would be planning, legal and architect’s fees.
adds up to a shortfall of £2M, expensive groundworks, planning, & fees. The other issue is a shell company doesn't make money so the liability of £5M+ must have been paid to SFP by investor(s) just who are they. Some mention in the Q&A over a group called Wetmore.
DeleteThis £5M must be by way of loans but as there is no charge noted in the company accounts they must be very trusting people.
I have a vague recollection of tdc being involved with the storm drain and arranging to empty into the harbour, i think mh was the engineer involved at the time.
Delete1.53. Steady on old chap. You are identifying with a "Vast majority" who trust local government. Obviously you need the comfort of inventing a number of people who you can claim agree with your perception of reality. If you read the comments and the OP do you see evidence of trust in the local government ? I assume your "Vast majority" are silent ? Perhaps each hidden behind a telegraph pole where you admit that your perception cannot reach ?
ReplyDeleteWhere, in the post you purported to be replying to, is there a "Conspiracy theory" ?
There is a quip followed by the suggestion perhaps the developer may make issue of the TDC cliff face safety work. Where have you seen such an issue debated before ? Yes well done. On this blog. The safety of the cliff is an intrinsically worthwhile issue. But the conjecture was whether the developer might yet exploit it.
If the developer has indeed parted with money to TDC for work and that work does not meet safety criteria for the development TDC could have a problem ?
Take your meds there's a dear
5:25, there are about a dozen people regularly comment on this blog site so whether you, in turn, can claim that represents anything other than a very small minority is questionable. The only way to test out what a majority think is to hold a referendum, but that has not been done nor is it likely.
DeleteAs a councillor I can only judge by the people in my constituency who contact me or who I meet around the place and have a chat with. Certainly, although not TDC myself, I do not get the impression there is massive dissatisfaction with the district council anymore than there are a mass of people willing to take on the job.
Perhaps we all need to take a reality pill to reaffirm that comments on blog sites are not, anymore than are articles in the Mail or Mirror, representative of any great number of people.
Rather the point William. What I can claim (and did claim) was that the subject of the post is an answer by officers that is inconsistent with the earlier result of an FOI. IE A basis for lacking trust.
DeleteI did not "In my turn" claim to know the opinion of a majority. I was questioning the psychology of the contributor who "In his turn" invents groups of people who he claims agree with his views. Obviously if this is a silent majority short of being a mind reader how the hell would he know what their opinions are ?
The subject of the thread is Pleasurama and in that regard figures provided by TDC. And on this thread so far there has been no evidence of trust in those figures.
It follows that, apart from displaying his psychological need for a gang to bolster him, the anon I was answering had deployed a Strawman argument. I suspect I know who he is and the comments he made are his usual brand of nonsense. Though he did spare us, on this occasion, his other inventions of "Usual suspects" "Nimbys" and so on.
Not disagreeing with you 6:46, but do you ever stop to wonder how many of the greater general public really care. As long as things do not directly effect them they happily get on with their lives, but, don't empty the dustbins and then the excreta tends to hit the fan big time.
DeleteBut William even the Government itself describes TDC as one of Britain's worst councils, yet at 6:07 above you are saying as a town councillor that you see no problems with TDC?
Delete5:45, I said that the people I talk to in my ward do not seem that dissatisfied with TDC.
DeleteIt does seem exorbitant to have paid out £5 million on "professional fees" when you have so little to show for it. I don't think this figure should be accepted without some documentary evidence, which would be required before such a claim could be entertained in court. I can't imagine they had to pay much for advice on how to outwit and outmanoeuvre TDC.
ReplyDelete